utah proposed shed hunting change

[The Ox]

i do agree there are people out there that cause problems but penalizing the law abiders is not the way to go... its like the dumb people that want gun control becuase of the criminals all that does is take away from the law abidiers as well and when in the future shed hunting becomes somthing we have to pay for you will be to thank.. givng the dwr control over shed hunters is not gonna be a good idea imho.they will come up with the well we have to charge a processing fee so you can take the test or whatever. and ya there are dumb people out there that chase the animals and wait for there sheds to fall maybe regulate that kind of stuff...but if people are doing that they are not gonna take anything from your course and utilize it...if thuis was an optional free course it would be a better idea. a criminal is a criminal, people still poach even though they know its wrong! there still gonna harass wildlife even if they have to take a test.
we occaisionally find sheds while moving cows on horse and its people taht dont shed hunt often that find them they will have to come take a course to pick up a shed they stumble upon or be fined... great freakin idea. there we go penalizing people that dont need it ridiculous!

[proutdoors]

How are you being 'penalized'? Are you having to pay a fine? No!

This is about being a good steward over the animals we ALL love and enjoy seeing/hunting. The 'shed craze' as gotten to the point where people ARE doing stupid things to obtain them. It has had negative impacts on the deer/elk herds. In a time where deer/elk are seeing pressure year round, is it any wonder they struggle the way they do? We as sportsmen are entrusted with doing what we can to help the animals we love to hunt/observe. If EDUCATING ourselves on how our actions can/do have unintended impacts on wildlife helps grow the herds, is it worth it to you? It sure is to me.

Taking an ATV off the road on public land, unless you are in an specifically approved off road area, ALWAYS has bad ramifications.

[AGCHAWK]

Alright, enough is enough.

Ox, both Skull Krazy and yourself have always seemed to be two pretty decent guys over the years here at MuleyMadness. I can see that this is a subject that you are rather passionate about but this is not the way to get your voice heard.

I want to start by saying (and I posted this earlier in this thread) that although I do not live in Utah I think this is a GREAT idea and really wish more western states would follow Utah's lead in this arena. The last thing the deer and elk need after a long, hard winter is a lot of additional pressure on them during the "shed season" whether it's by ATVs or folks on foot IMHO.

Secondly, Skull Krazy is 100% correct as far as the "parts" question goes. It does not matter one bit whether the antler was shed naturally or not, it is still regarded as part of the animal. Yes, it is a FORMER part of the animal, but still a part in the eyes of the regs/law.

I did have a question: Ox, did you voice your concerns and/or displeasure with the measure at one of the meetings? Have you written your thoughts down and delivered it to your Game Department? If you are indeed this upset about this change you need to do this..and do it the right way. Ranting and Raving will do you no good. Construct your thoughts in an organized manner and bring solutions to your concerns. Voicing possible problems without also giving a possible solution will also do you no good.

Again, both you and Skull Krazy are very valuable members of this site. Please do not continue the bitter "back and forth" here on the public forum. If you must continue this rather rediculous "tennis match" please do so via Private Message.

[skull krazy]

Ox-
Thank you for calming down a little, i will follow suit.

Keep in mind that you are preaching to the choir about your agreement that there are unlawful and wildlife harrassers out there. We (the entire committee) already know this and this is why SOME laws have to be put into place before it gets anymore out of control thatn it already has become.
Unfortuntaly Ox, laws DO only seem to punish the "good people", but you simply can't be looking at it that way. I know i am a good driver, no accidents or speeding tickets in 27 years, but guess what.....i have to abide by the laws set forth BECAUSE OF the careless ones out there.
They aren't actually trying to punish ME, they are protecting me from careless drivers.

And to educate you about who i am and what i stand for as far as being a part of this committee?
I am an avid shed hunter, have been for 20 years. I also own a reproduction skull business (Skull Krazy) to mount both deer and elk sheds onto to make European mounts of the sheds.
I am also a big game hunting guide and have worked for one of the biggest, most respected and reputable outfitters in the western United States for over 14 consecutive years.
If all that makes me an "Enviromentalist" then so be it....it also means i care about my sport and fragile resources that can be stripped away in a heartbeat by neglegent people if i don't stand up for what i beleive.
As for the "Shed Antler Committee" members? 4 of us are avid shedhunters, one is the head of the Mule Deer Foundation, two are private landowners (ranchers) and three are wildlife officers, one of which is the lead dog of wildlife law enforcement. Each and every one of us enjoy shed hunting and are only trying to protect "OUR SPORT" and refuse to sit by and let it get even more out of control than it's already getting by people who DON'T care.

Thank you for taking the time to read all of that whether you agree or disagree.....i am going outside to enjoy my day.

[skull krazy]

........and thank you AGCHAWK and Pro, your support is very much appreciated.

[9er]

i for one LOVE the idea!!

last year i was watching some pretty decent bucks/bulls. as soon as the sheds started hitting the ground i started seeing a few people in there picking them up!! All i could do was sit there in disbelief. Being the law abidding citizen i am, i never ONCE picked a shed up, even though i had a few "spotted" out

I did end up calling the DWR on the "shed poachers" and hopefully they got the book.

IMHO, this is the best way to handle this situation, now if we can all just enforce each other!!

SKull, any word on how they gonna enforce this?

9er

[skull krazy]

Hey 9er!
UNFORTUNATELY and like all our laws, there are WAY too few officers in the field to catch and enforce everyone and everything, it's going to be up to "US" to do more policing amongst ourselves. If you see someone breaking a law, get all the information you can and call it in.
These laws aren't going to be a "fix all", but it's a step in the right direction versus sitting by and doing nothing.
It is amazing how many people don't even think about the impact shed hunting has on our animals, and when i have had talked to people about it, the response usually goes something like this-
"Really? I hadn't even thought about the doe's being pregnant in march and april"....among other statements and issues we're trying to address.
And THIS is exactly what the ethics and habitat destruction course is going to teach people so they have a better understanding of the possible negative impact shed hunting CAN have on our wildlife.
Simply put.....we are NOT trying to keep people from shed hunting at all, just tyring to raise an awareness, that's all.
Let's set a good example for other western states that are watching us. Trust me, they ARE watching and taking notes on our success and failures, and "failure" is to do nothing.

[The Ox]

thanks for all your inputs and apologize for the heated behavior... ok ok i think i understand since 9er said something about seeing people pick sheds when he could not and i take it most of you are in the northern part where you cant shed hunt year round am i right? with that said for you guys already having those restrictions i can see where this would benefit you and it makes quite a lot of sense!your just glad to be shed hunting!.. and can see why such a propoal would be made....now i down where i shed hunt the snow is typically not there for very long i hunt the more arid areas. and most of what i observe from what the deer are eating during winter months are taller plants like the bitter brush and mahogany anyway thats what i know the plants to be called not sure if that is actual scientific fancy name.... now i dont obsrve very many iwnter killed deer here, and they seem to do just fine the winters are a lot more mild and although it does get cold it is mostly during january and the deer dont start sheddiung until sometime in feb .i typically dont start hunting them until that time. now often times i and others are on horse back moving cattle in areas where sheds are during this time and most of the people that are also with arent avid shed hunters and will not care to do this course now that is going to penalize them because they do enjoy finding sheds when they ride across them. but they are not going to be able to pick them up if they find them ... ie...people like my mom! ... now like i have said before i dont believe that in this area 4 wheelers are very destructive if at all... like i said we use 4 wheelers often and if it damaged much we would not be using them we have cattle and depend on that new grass every year for the cattle. although if it is muddy it can make a rut or two but the grass always fills in just as thick or as thin as the spot next to it. and most of the time i cannot see where i have even rode several weeks later. ive ridden in our hay field to go to the sprinkler pivot and i cannot tell where i have ridden... by the time we cut the hay it is as tall as the next.

the envirometalist thing is obviously not true however the way i read the document seemed very enviromentally written.. i was very heated and needed to blow some smoke on the issue i am still quite frustrated with it. however if i lived up north id be all for it as well... and i dont know the situation up there.
skull like i said before thanks for caring enough and spending time to try to help with the situatuion.

[proutdoors]

I don't live in the northern region, nor does skull krazy. In fact I live in the central, but I shed hunt in the southern region where I hunt every year. This isn't about 'punishing' people from the other regions or 'punishing' any period. This is about minimizing negative impacts on wildlife during crucial times of the year. The MOST critical time for deer is February and March, even though the doe may survive, she can likely abort her fawn(s) if stressed. Why take the chance when by waiting a few weeks the antlers will still be brown, but it WILL help the deer?

As for riding your atv through brush/vegetation, I am assuming ox is talking about on private land, at least i hope so. One thing you may be overlooking is that if one person goes off road and leaves a track, it is likely another rider will follow the track, next thing you know there is a new trail adding to the negative impact on wildlife. Let's do our part as stewards and sportsmen, it actually irks me that we need a committee come up with something that should be taken care of by individuals simply from using common sense. It is people acting irresponsible that has lead to this recommendation from the committee. I doubt anyone on the committee 'enjoyed' drafting this, and they did so only because people ignoring common sense gave them little other options.

[shedcrazyUT]

First I just want to say that i dont agree or disagree with the new laws. But I for one will do whatever I have to to hunt antlers legally. I do have to say one thing about new laws being made, If the states dont do it the feds will and that could mean closures and fees. Once an antler hits the ground on federal land technically it becomes federal property, just like arrowheads or fossils or even trees for that matter; you have to buy a permit to gather fire wood. Just something to think about.