History of Muley Distribution

wyomingtrophyhunter · Post by **wyomingtrophyhunter** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:12 pm

Anyone out there got the scoop on the historical distribution (and demise thereof) of muleys in the United States ?

An extremely old neighbor of mine has a pretty nice (25 inch/4 point) mule deer mount that he claims was taken by his great uncle around 1920 in what is now the White River Refuge on the lower White River in Arkansas. His uncle was a game warden with the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission and claimed that this muley was the last one taken in the state. It is definitely (IMHO) a mule deer. Whether it was killed where claimed, I do not know. I have no reason to doubt this man's word, however.

Furthermore, in my many years of hunting in south Arkansas, I have seen two deer killed that had the physical traits like the mule/whitetail crosses I've seen in eastern Colorado from time to time. I killed one of the aforementioned Arkansas deer and it was a 5 x 4, had no brow tines, had forked pinchers on the main beams, and most telling of all, had the big, ole flop ears.

I know, the cross-breed theory is questionable with lots of folks, including some biologists. I would still contend, however, that the south Arkansas deer herd has some of the muley traits in its gene pool and these traits manifest themselves sometimes, however infrequently.

Anybody out there got any information based on their experiences and observations......or am I just crazy for even thinking this kind of stuff ? :oops:

And yeah, I'm that same goofball who claims to be on the trail of that 48" six out there in north-central Wyoming.............

wyomingtrophyhunter · Post by **wyomingtrophyhunter** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:04 am

Surely somebody out there knows something. I can't even find anything on the WWW.

Anybody even willing to make up something..........? :lol:

Please help. Thanks.

AGCHAWK · Post by **AGCHAWK** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:26 am

wyomingtrophyhunter, when I read your post I thought "There has got to be something on www" so I did a search of my own and your right, there isn't much. If your wondering about a certain state you can go to most of the DFG page for a particular state and they will have some info on past distribution numbers but you would have to do a bit of leg work of your own to get a comprehensive layout of the total distribution history over lower 48 and Canada. Pretty surprising really although there may be something out there that we have not found yet (Any help guys?).
You got me wondering myself and figure I'll spend a chunk of my weekend looking around. I'll see I can come up with something you can use.

wyomingtrophyhunter · Post by **wyomingtrophyhunter** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:02 am

Thanks, AGCHAWK.

The Arkansas Game and Fish Comm. was not in existence until about 1915 and only as a cameo enforcement agency...enforcement for the few, scant wildlife laws we had back then. By that time, deer were so scarce (period) that they were a pure novelty anywhere in the state.

I interviewed an ancient feller 20 years ago who told me of living in the delta (home of giant whitetails now) as a child. He related how when some dirt farmer would even see a deer track, a posse was formed and the poor creature was trailed unmercifully until it was found and dispatched. He rightly reminded me, however, that this was Arkansas in the 'twenties and folks were hungry.

My own father, at age 12, killed an 8-point basket head in 1938 in south Arkansas.....a rare deed and an equally rare success at one of the many deer camps which were really not much more than social clubs under the guise of hunting.

Quite a change from today where we "officially" kill 300,000 each year. You can triple that figure to get a "real" count which includes the year-round poaching, spotlighting, road kills, and unchecked/untagged deer taken during the legal seasons.

All this said, records in Arkansas from the early days are practically nonexistent. I suppose any mention of mule deer in northeast Texas, Louisiana, and/or Mississippi might be of some value in determining the muley distribution in Arkansas.

I do appreciate your willingness to help in this research just to salve my curiosity about an old muley mount that has an old story to go with it. If it is as hot where you are as it is here, it is way too hot to scout deer so maybe a little quality internet time is not too much of a waste of time.

Thanks and best regards.

AGCHAWK · Post by **AGCHAWK** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:55 pm

No problem wyomingtrophyhunter, sounds like an interesting topic. I'll let you know what I come up with.

AGCHAWK · Post by **AGCHAWK** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:54 am

wyomingtrophyhunter, just letting you know that I found someinteresting information but I had to do it the old fashion way, I had to carry my happy behind to the public library! Anyway, I'll finish up and let you know what I have.

wyomingtrophyhunter · Post by **wyomingtrophyhunter** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 am

ACGHAWK,

I appreciate your persistence and look forward to seeing the fruits of your research skills on my behalf.

Best regards,

wyomingtrophyhunter

razorbackbowhunter · Post by **razorbackbowhunter** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:54 am

wyomingtrophyhunter, I live and hunt in southern arkansas and have seen one deer that was killed by a friend of mine that had the traits u were talking about. it was killed about 13 years ago outside bearden ar. it had deep forked g2's on both sides and a forked g4 on one side and it had huge ears just like a muley.

razorbackbowhunter

wyomingtrophyhunter · Post by **wyomingtrophyhunter** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:18 pm

Thanks for pitching in on this topic, razorbackbowhunter.

One of the deer I referred to was killed just outside of Hampton, not too far from you. The other, I killed in 1991 between Star City and Pinebergen.

I am looking forward to the report that ACGHAWK has promised. I suspect that the gene pool of most mammals has many chromosome nuances that manifest themselves from time to time.

Case in point: Ever seen the giant Jack-a-lope in the gas station out in Dubois, WY ?? :---)

AGCHAWK · Post by **AGCHAWK** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:03 pm

wyomingtrophyhunter, I haven't forgotten ya or the info on Mulie Distro. I just got back in AGAIN. As I posted in one of the forums earlier, I got my marching orders from Uncle Sam and am currently trying to prep everything for my departure for the big sand box overseas. Sure putting a cramper on my hunting availability this year and the hunting plans I had over the next three months but I'll manage (I'll even manage to squeeze two of my hunts in before I go). Sure don't look good for next year though!!! That's alright though, I am more than willing to get out there and do my part....quite frankly it's been too long in coming (My wife and kids would argue that point)!
I'll try to post that info this week. Sorry for the delay my friend.