when is it consider "high fenced hunting"?

[killerbee]

lots of answers please:
i'll try and just state the facts and let everyone chime in their own opinion. and i wont give mine until alot of guys have reply'd
in oregon we have a hunting unit called"STARKEY EXPERIMENTAL FOREST" this is a state operated place that covers 40sq.miles of ground. it is surrounded by an 8 ft fence on all sides. it is used to experiment on animal reaction to multple elements. hunting pressure,cattle grazing,atv usage,. it is used to help determine effect of clear cutting,over grazing,erotion,etc...
all though it sayd in a link i've added, it's been around since late 80's < again i could be off on that, but one of the articles says a date> oregon dept. of fish and wildlife has transplanted elk out of the unit into other non-fenced units. B&C and P&Y does not allow for tha animals taken in the unit to be added to their books. i've added a couple links for further info.

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/exforests/starkey/index.shtml

http://www.oregonlive.com/outdoors/inde ... st_46.html


so my question is this. some guys believe a place this big is not considered a "high fenced hunt" and should be allowed in B&C/P&Y.
SO-- IS IT or IS IT NOT? and should places this big be allowed by B&C / P&Y?

[AGCHAWK]

That's a great question Brian, but I would still consider it "High fenced". 40 square miles is a lot of land but it's still fenced in, which does not allow animals to enter or exit and essencially restricts movement.

I am not an expert though...just my opinion.

[kinzysdad]

I'm with Hawk, I would consider it Fenced. I wonder what affect inbreading will have over time

[AGCHAWK]

I'm with Hawk, I would consider it Fenced. I wonder what affect inbreading will have over time

I thought the same thing but if it's used for study purposes then I would also assume that they have checks and balances for that. Maybe that's why they release animals from that enclosure at times like Brian elluded to. Just speculation, of course.

Oh, and Brian, you asked at the end of your post about P&Y and B&C not accepting the animals. I am assuming that you are refering to released animals, right?
If so, I can see why they would not allow them into the books, even if they were released into an active GMU. The animal was raised in a fenced enclosure....that simple (They were not raised in the wide open wild, did not go through the same trials and tribulations, and did not have to make it through numerous hunting seasons to achieve trophy status). I would liken it to the elk that escaped from the High Fenced operation in southern Idaho a couple years ago. Those animals would never be included, even if they were outside the fence. They were not raised wild, regardless of the size of the enclose. (I know, the ones in Idaho were also thought to have Red Stag genes but it's best example I could come up with)

[NONYA]

When an animal is hunted n an area surrounded by a HIGH FENCE,its pretty simple,size of enclosure doesnt make it not an enclosure.

[kinzysdad]

I'm far from smart so bear with me. If critters are released then others would have to be brought in to keep the gean pool saturated? One of those things that make you go humph.

I'm going to see what I can find.

Now that I think about it, I have lots of questions.

[killerbee]

I'm with Hawk, I would consider it Fenced. I wonder what affect inbreading will have over time

I thought the same thing but if it's used for study purposes then I would also assume that they have checks and balances for that. Maybe that's why they release animals from that enclosure at times like Brian elluded to. Just speculation, of course.

Oh, and Brian, you asked at the end of your post about P&Y and B&C not accepting the animals. I am assuming that you are refering to released animals, right?
If so, I can see why they would not allow them into the books, even if they were released into an active GMU. The animal was raised in a fenced enclosure....that simple (They were not raised in the wide open wild, did not go through the same trials and tribulations, and did not have to make it through numerous hunting seasons to achieve trophy status). I would liken it to the elk that escaped from the High Fenced operation in southern Idaho a couple years ago. Those animals would never be included, even if they were outside the fence. They were not raised wild, regardless of the size of the enclose. (I know, the ones in Idaho were also thought to have Red Stag genes but it's best example I could come up with)

i have to keep my opinion out for a while on this one.
but to clarify your question.----- an official b&c scorer told me that B&C would consider the animals INSIDE the fence. because they allow buffalo from custer park, which is apperantly similer[although i know nothing about custer park-just what i was told] like i said, just so me as the original poster can't be blamed for influencing the thread i'll leave my opinion out and just the facts in.---- but the question is, should B&C/P&Y allow animals INSIDE the unit to be booked[because of the size]
and feel free to click on the links to get a better feel for the unit. it may or may not change an opinion.

[kinzysdad]

Again, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but!!!!!!!


"Starkey scientists also discovered that ATVs disrupt wildlife far more than hikers, mountain bikes and horseback riders, he said. That has implications for federal proposals to ban motorized traffic from some public lands, including 4,200 miles of roads that might be placed off-limits to vehicles on northeastern Oregon's Wallowa-Whitman National Forest. "

No kidding? How much does this guy get paid?

Killerbee, if I read the arcitcle rite, it's only a spike elk hunt? No, nothing should be recorded a record book.
One of the arcticles also stated that the folks feed the critters all winter. Again, no nothing should be a record. IMHO

[AGCHAWK]

Again, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but!!!!!!!


"Starkey scientists also discovered that ATVs disrupt wildlife far more than hikers, mountain bikes and horseback riders, he said. That has implications for federal proposals to ban motorized traffic from some public lands, including 4,200 miles of roads that might be placed off-limits to vehicles on northeastern Oregon's Wallowa-Whitman National Forest. "

No kidding? How much does this guy get paid?

Killerbee, if I read the arcitcle rite, it's only a spike elk hunt? No, nothing should be recorded a record book.
One of the arcticles also stated that the folks feed the critters all winter. Again, no nothing should be a record. IMHO

Yea, Kinsysdad and I are on the same page. I read both articles and it sounds like a great project...although I could have told them the same thing regarding the motorized vehicles!

Even if the hunt were a branched antler hunt, I couldn't support allowing the animals into the books based on what I read.

Come on Brian, tell us what you think!...

(I might need to take a drive down there one of these days and check it out. Sounds really interesting)

[killerbee]

Again, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but!!!!!!!


"Starkey scientists also discovered that ATVs disrupt wildlife far more than hikers, mountain bikes and horseback riders, he said. That has implications for federal proposals to ban motorized traffic from some public lands, including 4,200 miles of roads that might be placed off-limits to vehicles on northeastern Oregon's Wallowa-Whitman National Forest. "

No kidding? How much does this guy get paid?

Killerbee, if I read the arcitcle rite, it's only a spike elk hunt? No, nothing should be recorded a record book.
One of the arcticles also stated that the folks feed the critters all winter. Again, no nothing should be a record. IMHO

Yea, Kinsysdad and I are on the same page. I read both articles and it sounds like a great project...although I could have told them the same thing regarding the motorized vehicles!

Even if the hunt were a branched antler hunt, I couldn't support allowing the animals into the books based on what I read.

Come on Brian, tell us what you think!...

(I might need to take a drive down there one of these days and check it out. Sounds really interesting)

no- absolutly not just a spike tag. branch antler bull tag.
in the article it says that the info learned has proved that mature bulls produce stronger calves. this info. has led to alot of the state offering "spike only" hunts. but this hunt is absolutly a branch antlered bull tag. in the past couple yrs on this "state issued" tag there has been a buck killed that was 230"+[ i wanna say 260" but would have to back check] and an archery bull killed 360+.
hawk, for a good reason i need to stay out of the debate. but i'm quite sure you would be able to guess my stance.



also i would like to hear from BOHNTR- [ and i believe maybe stickflicker-there is another official scorer around] on the fact as to B&C /P&Y would consider allowing these to be elligable for the books because of the size of the area. and [so i'm told]because they allow
bison from custer park which is also high fence.