Should Utah Legalize the Crosbow for Hunting?
Should Utah Legalize the Crosbow for Hunting?
I would like some thoughts and opinions on legalizing the Crossbows use in Utah. Before you start to hack away consider looking at this first
Crossbow Myths and facts
Please read some information, educate yourself and if interested in pursuing this type of action "Legalizing the use of crossbows for hunting" Join crossbowhunting.nets forum and lets form a group to help educate folks at the rack meetings.
Thanks
I posted this same question over on the DWR site and have cought some grief. I would love to see some real hunters opinions rather than a bunch of sheep. I can take no for an answer with good strong logic, or that you admit it's just a prefrence.
DWR Debate
Anyway My hope is to strike some common ground and not just argue. To use facts and not just opinions.
Let the fun begin
Crossbow Myths and facts
Please read some information, educate yourself and if interested in pursuing this type of action "Legalizing the use of crossbows for hunting" Join crossbowhunting.nets forum and lets form a group to help educate folks at the rack meetings.
Thanks
I posted this same question over on the DWR site and have cought some grief. I would love to see some real hunters opinions rather than a bunch of sheep. I can take no for an answer with good strong logic, or that you admit it's just a prefrence.
DWR Debate
Anyway My hope is to strike some common ground and not just argue. To use facts and not just opinions.
Let the fun begin
Now you need to understand, I've been bowhunting and around the archery business for 30+ years. I've shot crossbows during that time for recreation. Sold a few at my partner's shop as well. However, they are not even close to a bow, IMO. Biggest difference, a true bow has to be drawn AND held by the archer at full draw. A crossbow does not. Additionally, the crossbow has a shoulder & forearm stock, which allows the shooter to use a supported rest, etc........just like a shouldered firearm.
I do agree it is a close range like a bow & arrow. However, so is a shotgun loaded with buckshot and/or a flintlock. Would you allow those weapons in the Archery Only season as well? Of course you wouldn't.
I think there is a place for crossbows in the hunting community. Perhaps a primitive weapon season or a HAM (handgun, archery, muzzleloader) type season would be more applicable. But it doesn't belong in the "archery only" season, IMO. It's simply not a bow & arrow.
I do agree it is a close range like a bow & arrow. However, so is a shotgun loaded with buckshot and/or a flintlock. Would you allow those weapons in the Archery Only season as well? Of course you wouldn't.
I think there is a place for crossbows in the hunting community. Perhaps a primitive weapon season or a HAM (handgun, archery, muzzleloader) type season would be more applicable. But it doesn't belong in the "archery only" season, IMO. It's simply not a bow & arrow.
BOHNTR )))-------------->
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First off, great topic and discussion. I'm undecided on this one for a couple of reasons still. First off I did educate myself and READ ALL of your link with the myth/facts of crossbow hunting. So I can see your point of view.
My question to you is simple...now I understand your limitations and why you use a crossbow (no problem whatsoever), but what I'm curious about is why do you want them legalized in Utah? Not being rude or judgemental, just really need to know why you feel they should be??
Are they more superior to you? You just like them better? There funner? Cooler? Easier? Your use to them?
Or is it that you killed a MONSTER buck with one and now are addicted?
Do we need another weapon to hunt with? And if they are similar to a bow/arrow then what's the point?? Why do we need them at all?
I need to clarify that I have limited use and knowledge of bow hunting and am a rookie in that regard, but hope to improve and gain experience.
I also know nothing about crossbows really until I read your article posted, and before that the only thing I've heard is that they (crossbows) are more accurate at farther distances than traditional bows.
So I'm trying to ponder your idea with an open mind, thus no vote for me yet. I'll admit my first reaction was to vote no.
I'd also like to know WHY UTAH has banned them?? Is there someone that could give us the reason for doing so from there standpoint. Or is our answer going to be the "public...does not want them."
I've not yet chosen to dive into the DWR thread yet either, not sure I want to.
First off, great topic and discussion. I'm undecided on this one for a couple of reasons still. First off I did educate myself and READ ALL of your link with the myth/facts of crossbow hunting. So I can see your point of view.
My question to you is simple...now I understand your limitations and why you use a crossbow (no problem whatsoever), but what I'm curious about is why do you want them legalized in Utah? Not being rude or judgemental, just really need to know why you feel they should be??
Are they more superior to you? You just like them better? There funner? Cooler? Easier? Your use to them?
Or is it that you killed a MONSTER buck with one and now are addicted?
Do we need another weapon to hunt with? And if they are similar to a bow/arrow then what's the point?? Why do we need them at all?
I need to clarify that I have limited use and knowledge of bow hunting and am a rookie in that regard, but hope to improve and gain experience.
I also know nothing about crossbows really until I read your article posted, and before that the only thing I've heard is that they (crossbows) are more accurate at farther distances than traditional bows.
So I'm trying to ponder your idea with an open mind, thus no vote for me yet. I'll admit my first reaction was to vote no.
I'd also like to know WHY UTAH has banned them?? Is there someone that could give us the reason for doing so from there standpoint. Or is our answer going to be the "public...does not want them."
I've not yet chosen to dive into the DWR thread yet either, not sure I want to.
Thanks so much for some great posts. They are clear and in my opinion non judgmental.
Just a little history first
I don’t know if you ever heard of this little Native American guy by the name of Fred Bear, but he got involved with this Jennings fellow and came up with some pretty good improvements on the compound bow. In the mean time the guy with the little fedora hat, started promoting the concept of the two season hunter both bow and gun, never berating the latter. However, many a gun hunter didn’t want the Bow hunters around and the traditional Bow hunters chimed in as well to do away with the compound bow. No real logical reason, just being against something was good enough, perhaps they just wanted the woods all to themselves. Ever hear that one before?
But Fred Bear kept the faith, with patience and education while leading by example in the finest sense of the word. The compound bow was legalized in all states and Bow hunting hit the limelight. This would include our own local bow hunting founders who helped in the state of Louisiana, the Bayou State Bow hunters. But be advised at present time there is no real threat to bow hunting in the state of Louisiana, but this misguided group have convinced themselves that the crossbow will cause the demise of all bow hunting. Notably, the longest archery season in the nation, is in the Sportsmen Paradise.
Now one could say that the recurve, or long bow are different than a compound. As is a crossbow. I agree maybe the step is to go with a separate season, or allow them during the muzzleloader season, But your argument on the shotgun and the flintlock are not a fair comparaison. Both use powder and some form of bullet, not arrows.
My reasoning is I was forced to educate myself about crossbows and really understand it's actual capabilities. Once that happened, I could not understand why they had not been legalized in the first place. In the past 10 years of using one I have shot 3 bucks. It took me many years to develop my skills to take an animal with my bow. The odds IMO are the same as any other archery tackle. So why not legalize it.
Many states have legalized the Crossbow and I bet most did not know that it's legal in Wyoming.
It is not going to ruin the archery season. Facts show that those who get to choose a weapon will still do so as they wish, log bow, Re-curve, or compound, or Crossbow. It's about choice.
No I do not think they are superior, just the opposite, I view them as equal.
The one argument that comes up many times is the drawing of the bow. First off this is not the only reason their is an archery season. Second We could counter back and forth all day about plus and minus advantages. When an animal approaches and you have to pull back, I have to position for my shot, both have movement involved. Now if the argument is that it's tough to hold for 3 minutes to make a good shot, then all bow hunting should be outlawed because clean ethical shots is a standard rule in hunting and that situation allows for bad shot placement. Now before you get worked up, I don't believe that, but it's the same style of argument.
I know I will take heat for this but I believe in it. It's taken 10 years of field experience to prove to me it's a worthy cause.
Just a little history first
I don’t know if you ever heard of this little Native American guy by the name of Fred Bear, but he got involved with this Jennings fellow and came up with some pretty good improvements on the compound bow. In the mean time the guy with the little fedora hat, started promoting the concept of the two season hunter both bow and gun, never berating the latter. However, many a gun hunter didn’t want the Bow hunters around and the traditional Bow hunters chimed in as well to do away with the compound bow. No real logical reason, just being against something was good enough, perhaps they just wanted the woods all to themselves. Ever hear that one before?
But Fred Bear kept the faith, with patience and education while leading by example in the finest sense of the word. The compound bow was legalized in all states and Bow hunting hit the limelight. This would include our own local bow hunting founders who helped in the state of Louisiana, the Bayou State Bow hunters. But be advised at present time there is no real threat to bow hunting in the state of Louisiana, but this misguided group have convinced themselves that the crossbow will cause the demise of all bow hunting. Notably, the longest archery season in the nation, is in the Sportsmen Paradise.
Now one could say that the recurve, or long bow are different than a compound. As is a crossbow. I agree maybe the step is to go with a separate season, or allow them during the muzzleloader season, But your argument on the shotgun and the flintlock are not a fair comparaison. Both use powder and some form of bullet, not arrows.
My reasoning is I was forced to educate myself about crossbows and really understand it's actual capabilities. Once that happened, I could not understand why they had not been legalized in the first place. In the past 10 years of using one I have shot 3 bucks. It took me many years to develop my skills to take an animal with my bow. The odds IMO are the same as any other archery tackle. So why not legalize it.
Many states have legalized the Crossbow and I bet most did not know that it's legal in Wyoming.
It is not going to ruin the archery season. Facts show that those who get to choose a weapon will still do so as they wish, log bow, Re-curve, or compound, or Crossbow. It's about choice.
No I do not think they are superior, just the opposite, I view them as equal.
The one argument that comes up many times is the drawing of the bow. First off this is not the only reason their is an archery season. Second We could counter back and forth all day about plus and minus advantages. When an animal approaches and you have to pull back, I have to position for my shot, both have movement involved. Now if the argument is that it's tough to hold for 3 minutes to make a good shot, then all bow hunting should be outlawed because clean ethical shots is a standard rule in hunting and that situation allows for bad shot placement. Now before you get worked up, I don't believe that, but it's the same style of argument.
I know I will take heat for this but I believe in it. It's taken 10 years of field experience to prove to me it's a worthy cause.
With the limited use that I've had with a crossbow I don't see why anybody would want to use one. Except for those that have some kind of physcial limitation of drawing a bow and holding it full draw. I was shooting better with my compound than I ever did with a crossbow with less practice. To me it would seem like more of a pain to lug it around and if you needed to take a second shot real quick I don't think that you would have the time to get it off after getting it cocked again. If I've done my work right the movment either from drawing a bow or moving to get into shooting posistion should not be a factor. I know that it doesn't always work out that way but that is the chance that you have to take sometimes. I voted yes mainly for the fact that if most tried a crossbow they would find that it's not as impressive as they thought it would be. I laugh when I hear people say that if they could use a crossbow then they could shoot out to hundred yard accuratly and drop deer left and right. For me it's a matter of choice. I do see that there is some advantage of using a crossbow over other bows but not a huge enough of a one to get me to switch over. If people want to think along those lines then I don't see how you could have the compound bows classed in with the long bow or the recurves either. To me there is a bigger difference between these two types of bows than there is between a compound and a crossbow.
The above statement is totaly my opinion and my opinion only.
The above statement is totaly my opinion and my opinion only.
Last edited by a_bow_nut on Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Live to hunt, hunt to live.
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell
the difference.
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell
the difference.
What a monster statement. Well thought out and it's all true. I don't say this because you agree, or voted yes, but because you have show that through education you understand and would simply make your personal choice. I also find it humorous that folks think you can shoot 100's of yards and how amazing they would be to use, until they are actually hunting with one.
BOHNTR, I disagree that a crossbow is not a bow, but that's our opinions. Just a little info for you.
MYTH: Because it is not hand-drawn and released, the crossbow is more closely compared to a firearm than a vertical bow.
FACT: Opponents to the crossbow often quote an apples and oranges comparison when voicing this smokescreen. The vertical archer, if they are a sportsman/bowhunter, prior to ever going into the field hunting spends hours and hours working on the physical conditioning required by drawing, aiming and shooting their chosen tool – nothing mystical, just physical work. Once the season starts, the act of drawing, aiming and shooting (especially with high let-off compounds utilizing a triggered release aid) is no more difficult for a vertical bowhunter than a crossbow hunter. Movement is required by both (one to draw back the other to raise the crossbow into a shooting position) to obtain the target at an average of less than twenty yards. Both hunters must be accomplished woodsmen to get that close to wild game and still mask those necessary movements.
I don't expect you to agree, but those same arguments on drawing a bow back have be proven untrue and hold little merit in real world situations.
BOHNTR, I disagree that a crossbow is not a bow, but that's our opinions. Just a little info for you.
MYTH: Because it is not hand-drawn and released, the crossbow is more closely compared to a firearm than a vertical bow.
FACT: Opponents to the crossbow often quote an apples and oranges comparison when voicing this smokescreen. The vertical archer, if they are a sportsman/bowhunter, prior to ever going into the field hunting spends hours and hours working on the physical conditioning required by drawing, aiming and shooting their chosen tool – nothing mystical, just physical work. Once the season starts, the act of drawing, aiming and shooting (especially with high let-off compounds utilizing a triggered release aid) is no more difficult for a vertical bowhunter than a crossbow hunter. Movement is required by both (one to draw back the other to raise the crossbow into a shooting position) to obtain the target at an average of less than twenty yards. Both hunters must be accomplished woodsmen to get that close to wild game and still mask those necessary movements.
I don't expect you to agree, but those same arguments on drawing a bow back have be proven untrue and hold little merit in real world situations.
That is a hot question.
Here in MO the same question has come up. Most people I know are against it. As for most peoples reasons, most likely it is "just because".
I would have to vote NO. My main reason is I think it will bring more hunters in to the woods during archery season. This is just a IMO. I have hunted public gound twice this year (in archery season) and both times have been run over by other hunters. Some arguments are that the number of hunters will stay the same. Hunters will just trade one wepon for another. Could be. But if they are trading gun for crossbow during archery season then my reason is valid. Not a good reason to vote no but most elections are not won by good reasons.
I think also one reason many people her in MO are agains it. Is because the push to legalize it is by the manufactures not a group of users. They see this as manufactures are trying to replace the lagging sales of bows with crossbows. If there were a group of users pushing I think people would be more acceptable.
The movement argument. I had one person say that if he used a crossbow he would set up a blind where he could lay on the ground and shoot from a pron postion. the crossbow would be virtually in the shooting position all the time. Therefore no movement. I very rairly have a deer spot me when moving to get a gun in place. But many times with a bow. The main reason is that with a gun I get the gun up when they are over 50 yards out. you could do that with a crossbow also. But with a bow I don't think about drawing until they are under 20 yards. I use a long bow and can not hold it long enough to let them walk in. Last weekend I had a deer at 5 yards and could not get the bow drawn without detection. Disapointed that I did not get a shot Yes but that is my choice.
The main reason to hunt with a bow is to spend more time in the woods and get close to deer. If I want the meat I would use a gun (and many times that is a flint lock). Personal choice.
Bottom line. WE as hunters need to stick to gether no matter what wepon we chose. If we do not we will LOSE our hunting rights/privilages. We are the manority and the ANTI's will use these segregations agains us.
](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall")
Will read this thread with interest.
Here in MO the same question has come up. Most people I know are against it. As for most peoples reasons, most likely it is "just because".
I would have to vote NO. My main reason is I think it will bring more hunters in to the woods during archery season. This is just a IMO. I have hunted public gound twice this year (in archery season) and both times have been run over by other hunters. Some arguments are that the number of hunters will stay the same. Hunters will just trade one wepon for another. Could be. But if they are trading gun for crossbow during archery season then my reason is valid. Not a good reason to vote no but most elections are not won by good reasons.
I think also one reason many people her in MO are agains it. Is because the push to legalize it is by the manufactures not a group of users. They see this as manufactures are trying to replace the lagging sales of bows with crossbows. If there were a group of users pushing I think people would be more acceptable.
The movement argument. I had one person say that if he used a crossbow he would set up a blind where he could lay on the ground and shoot from a pron postion. the crossbow would be virtually in the shooting position all the time. Therefore no movement. I very rairly have a deer spot me when moving to get a gun in place. But many times with a bow. The main reason is that with a gun I get the gun up when they are over 50 yards out. you could do that with a crossbow also. But with a bow I don't think about drawing until they are under 20 yards. I use a long bow and can not hold it long enough to let them walk in. Last weekend I had a deer at 5 yards and could not get the bow drawn without detection. Disapointed that I did not get a shot Yes but that is my choice.
The main reason to hunt with a bow is to spend more time in the woods and get close to deer. If I want the meat I would use a gun (and many times that is a flint lock). Personal choice.
Bottom line. WE as hunters need to stick to gether no matter what wepon we chose. If we do not we will LOSE our hunting rights/privilages. We are the manority and the ANTI's will use these segregations agains us.
Will read this thread with interest.