The decline of the trophy mule deer

[WYMULEYMAN]

I HUNT MOSTLY IN SOUTHERN WYOMING AS THAT IS WHERE I AM ORGINALLY FROM, HOWEVER, I HAVE RECENTLY MOVED TO JACKSON HOLE WYOMING AND CAN'T WAIT TO GO HUNT IN THIS AMAZING COUNTRY. I PERSONALLY HAVE BEEN WATCHING A NICE TYPICAL 4 POINT DEER THAT IS ABOUT 34 WIDE, HEAVY AND JUST AN AMAZING ANIMAL.
ANYWAY ON TO MY THOUGHT ABOUT ANIMAL HARASSEMENT. IT HAS BEEN LIKE A NEEDLE IN THE SIDE TO WATCH OUR MULE DEER POPULATION DECLINE MORE AND MORE EACH YEAR. I TOO REMEMBER WHEN I WAS JUST A PUP AND SITTING IN A CANYON AND WATCHING OVER 9 OR 10 GOOD MATURE BUCKS FEEDING WITH MY OLD MAN. HE AND I USE TO HUNT OUT OF BACK PACKS, MAKING SURE THAT WE TREADED LIGHTLY NO MATTER WHAT WE WERE DOING. AS I LOOK BACK NOW I REALIZE WHAT HURT OUR DEER THE WORST BACK HOME. TWO WORDS. !!!!!!! 4 WHEELERS!!!!!!!! ABOUT 6 YEARS BACK MY DAD AND I HAD JUST KILLED A RESPECTABLE DEER AND WE HAD BONED HIM OUT AND HAD JUST MADE IT BACK TO THE TRUCK WHEN TWO OLD BOYS RAN RIGHT PAST US ON THERE FOUR WHEELERS INTO THE SAME CANYON WE HAD JUST COME OUT OF. NOW THIS CANYON WAS SO STEEP AND ROUGH THAT WE HAD A HARD TIME ON FOOT, BUT THESE TWO WERE GOING DOWN THE MOUNTAIN ON THERE FOUR WHEELERS. ANYWAYS, ABOUT TWO HOURS LATER MY DAD AND I WERE SITTING DOWN THE ROAD AWAYS EATING OUR LUNCH AND PLANNING A EVENING HUNT WHEN THESE SAME TWO GUYS CAME RIDING UP TO US AND SAID WYOMING SUCKS FOR DEER AND THEY COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY IN FOUR DAYS THEY HAD NOT SEEN ONE SINGLE DEER. I COULD NOT HELP IT, I LAUGHED RIGHT IN THERE FACES. MY DAD AND I HAD SEEN SO MANY DEER IT WAS CRAZY. NEEDLESS TO SAY THEY DIDN'T LIKE ME MUCH. SO THEY TOOK OFF AND OUT OF CURIOSITY MY DAD HEADED BACK INTO THAT SAME CANYON THAT I HAD SHOT MY DEER IN EARLIER THAT DAY JUST TO SEE WHAT WE COULD SEE. TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT WE SAW TWO THINGS, ONE,,,,,,,, THE WORST TRACK THAT ANYONE COULD HAVE POSSIBLY LEFT DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF THE CANYON ALONG WITH TRESS CUT AND KNOCKED OVER. AND SECOND MY DAD SHOT A GOOD 5 POINT NOT 700 YARDS FROM WHERE I SHOT MY DEER THAT MORNING. MORAL OF STORY, IF YOU HUNT ON A 4 WHEELER THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, I AM NOT GOD AND JUST BECAUSE I CHOSE TO NOT HUNT OFF A FOUR WHEELER DOES NOT MAKE ME RIGHT, HOWEVER PLEASE RESPECT THE COUNTRY AND THESE BEAUTIFUL ANIMALS THAT WE ALL LOVE TO HUNT SO MUCH. :x

[Anonymous]

The original story by 30'' is outstanding!
Chute planes and 4-wheelers are nothing more than an attempt to substitute technology for skill. Those who would use these machines definitely hunt for different reasons then me. The problem is they're ruining alot of hunting areas for everyone , including themselves!

[WYMULEYMAN]

perfectly said!!!!
i don't think in as many words and as simply put, anyone could have said it better.


BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shedhunter]

Hey ya'll:

I just wanted to let my voice be herd on the subject. I agree with the author partially. Chute planes don't have a direct effect on declining trophy mule deer. Sure they aid in taking big bucks, some are bucks that have never, or would have never, set eyes on humans in their life times. I don't think that the use of planes is ethical when it comes to hunting big deer, their sheds is another story. I would also like to look down on the authour for slamming an orginization that works for wildlife, not to get gain for themselves. See the Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife topic in the forum. Other than that the author is absolutely right. We all need to do our part to help the mule deer rebound, lets get the hunitng back to a state like the 70's, Hey even the early 90's was better than today. There is definitely room for improvement! You all pay attention to the ATV suit in Nevada. They are trying to get ATV limits set, not eliminate them, but just as a means of controll.

[30inchbucks]

I'm sorry for slamming Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife so hard. They have put some of the big money they receive back into habitat which in my opinion has helped some areas but others very little. My question is, have you seen any improvement in our deer herd here in Utah over the last several years since the RACS were formed and Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife came about? NOT!!! They only seem to have one focus and that is Habitat! I'm sorry but habitat is not the only thing facing our mule deer today. I remember as a youngster my grandfather and dad taking me out on the winter range and you would see thousands of deer all over. Now today on that same winter range that they took me out to NOT ONE SINGLE DEER! Same habitat is there and thriving, but there are no deer. Explain that one please. I would like to hear a reasonable explanation. Only one that comes to my mind is 97,000+ tags year in and year out no matter what. In my opinion, as long as we have these RAC'S (which were suppose to be for public input, which they are far from that) and groups like Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife around, things will just continue the way they are and the drastic measures needed to change things will never take place. The only ones that have any power to change anything and persuade the RAC's are these wildlife organizations. If they need more conservation deer tags to sell they seem to get them and sell them even though our deer herd is struggling. If money is the problem I ask why can't we raise public tag fees or create a habitat and predator fee? Wouldn't a couple of extra dollars eliminate all this nonsense? We wouldn't need all these high dollar tags and the nonsense that comes with it. Groups like Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife have these RACS and the fish and game wrapped around their little finger. Anything they say seems to be OKay. The only way to change things is for public hunters to organize as a unified voice and take back what is suppose to be ours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On a side note. I'm really glad to see other states limiting the use of 4-wheelers in some areas. Maybe Utah will follow suit. It has really gotten out of hand. It's time for restrictions and fines for riding these things all over the tops of mountains tearing up our resource. By the way, I do own a 4 wheeler. You can ride one ethically! Example,ride on designated roads only, treading lightly, and then get off the thing and hike. It's really plain and simple but for some they just don't seem to get it.

[MuleyMadness]

Is the Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife against limiting the number of tags in the state of Utah? Or raising the fees? Or limiting predator control? I'm not a member, but have heard some good things. What's the real problem with them? Where they for the 25 smaller units in Utah or against them? What's the beef against them really?

I totally agree that Utah's deer herds are a mess, we all. You, me, your buddy etc. need to stop shooting 2-points. Let the youngster shoot the little guy when he gets his first tag. The # of tags needs to be lowered drastically, way to many hunters chasing far to many deer.

It's all about money really though isn't it? Thousands of other companies have been forced to lay off employees. Is the DWR going to follow suit? I doubt it.

just some thougts for now...maybe some more later. :D

[30inchbucks]

In answer to your questions. It all comes down to the concept of supply and demand. By reducing the tags and managing for more deer and bigger bucks, prices would come down for the guides and these conservation tags. Big bucks wouldn't be worth as much because there would be more of them around. What would the Governors tag be worth if the deer herd was like it was in the 60's and 70's? I'll guess not very much!!!! Would guides be making the money they're making? Of course not!! Based on this common sense information,do you think they are for reducing the tags and increasing the herds? I don't think so!!! I think the herds are right where they want them to be!!!!!!!!!!!! Greenbacks is all that matters and the people in power need it.
Just some thoughts to chew on for awhile.

[Anonymous]

You're absolutely right 30'' , until the state DWR cuts back on tags , you won't see the ''good old days'' our fathers and grandfathers enjoyed. Think about that number , 97,000 tags! No state can withstand that kind of hunting pressure and expect to have any kind of quality deer.
The only way to change this would be to force the DWR to maintain the deer herds / buck to doe ratio's at a desirable level REGARDLESS of their operating costs ! If that means only selling 10,000 tags per year so be it , they may have to cut their costs or raise their fees but selling enough tags to cover their budget is not wise game management . The state also needs to be split into smaller zones with each deer herd micro-managed to ensure proper buck to doe ratio's etc.
The state of Utah is about 20 years behind on deer management , I think part of the reason they get away with this is the CWMU program , which gives tags to the land owners and keeps them quiet , while the general public gets left with overcrowded public land saturated with the absence of deer!

[jkhunterid]

Hi, I was just wondering where all the money is going to come from to manage our resources and game departments if tags were cut that much? It seems to me that if you restricted tags that much they would be so expensive that hunting would become merely for the elite. Don't get me wrong I know we need to manage our resources, but if people only get to hunt every 9-10 years it would sure hurt the number of new and young hunters. I think that 4-wheelers should be regulated, winter range protected, and poachers prosecuted. However without game wardens ect. who is going to take care of these things? The other major issue facing our mule deer herds are the predators. Everyone talks about the good old days, well in the good old days predators were varmints and fur prices helped keep populations in check. Some of the areas I hunt have 3-4 times as many predators as they used to plus wolves.

[WYMULEYMAN]

The whole issue of game management is not an easy thing to cure. If it was we would have already done it years ago when our deer herds started there rapid decline. There are many different topics for management; winter range, tag cuts, predation, and many others which could not all be listed. I may receive some poor reviews for this but i think one of the issues that could, should and must be looked at more is the stunning rate at which our land is being developed. I live in Jackson Hole Wyoming and let me tell you a few things about jackson. anyone who lives in colorado can also see this very plainly. Our land is literally being swallowed by land developers and homebuilders. Don't get me wrong, i work for a architecture firm in jackson and land developing is our livelyhood. not that i totally agree with it, i think that it is sad to watch the land we once called backcountry being turned into million dollar homes. Last week we had a bear here in jackson in town, yes, without being said, they shot the poor bear because he was scaring folks of jackson. crappy excuse if you ask me. but the people still need to ask the question, why is the bear running around town. well the explaination is pretty easy, because his once abundant home is now a home for another type of animal(PEOPLE). anyways just a few thoughts from me!