Utah's Dedicated Hunter Program
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shedhunter
- Spike
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:27 am
- Location: Cedar City, UT
Utah's Dedicated Hunter Program
I can sense that there may be a bit of steam blown over this one. But hey we are all entitled to our opinions so fire up yours and speak your mind
Utah's didicated hunter program is one of a kind. It is for general deer hunters that want an in the bag tag for three years. The program allows participants to harvest 2 deer in 3 years (only one deer a year though), if that person pays the fees, completes a conservation course, and does 24 hours service. Durring the three year enrollment period, the participant is allowed to hunt all three general seasons (archery, muzzleloader, and rifle).
Lately there has been a fuss over the program. Some people complain that they use the Servoce project just so they (DWR) doesn't have to do the work themselves. Others complain that there are fewer hunting oppertunites for the non-dedicated hunter because there a a portion of ther general tags set aside for dedicated hunters(10,000 statewide). Some more complaints range from how it is unfair for participants to hunt all three hunts/seasons when a regular through the draw can only hunt one, to "I can't draw a Southern tag because of you SOB's!" And the list goes on.
Are you part of the program??? Do you think that this contributes to "bad" deer hunting in Utah??? Should the program continue to run???
Even if your not taking part in the program or don't know a lot about it, let us hear you voice! Come out and be herd!
Utah's didicated hunter program is one of a kind. It is for general deer hunters that want an in the bag tag for three years. The program allows participants to harvest 2 deer in 3 years (only one deer a year though), if that person pays the fees, completes a conservation course, and does 24 hours service. Durring the three year enrollment period, the participant is allowed to hunt all three general seasons (archery, muzzleloader, and rifle).
Lately there has been a fuss over the program. Some people complain that they use the Servoce project just so they (DWR) doesn't have to do the work themselves. Others complain that there are fewer hunting oppertunites for the non-dedicated hunter because there a a portion of ther general tags set aside for dedicated hunters(10,000 statewide). Some more complaints range from how it is unfair for participants to hunt all three hunts/seasons when a regular through the draw can only hunt one, to "I can't draw a Southern tag because of you SOB's!" And the list goes on.
Are you part of the program??? Do you think that this contributes to "bad" deer hunting in Utah??? Should the program continue to run???
Even if your not taking part in the program or don't know a lot about it, let us hear you voice! Come out and be herd!
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shedhunter
- Spike
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:27 am
- Location: Cedar City, UT
Since I brought this up, I'll start us off. First things first. I AM a participant in the dedicated hunter program. I think that the program is a great way to single out those who REALLY WANT to hunt and those who would LIKE to hunt. I think that with the cap on the number of participants (resident and non-resident) that this plays a minor role in weather you draw or not. One gentleman stood up in a RAC meeting trying to oust the program out of existance, SORRY SIR, but the program is here to STAY!!!! There is tons of work done every year by these people to improve habitat and hunting in general. Dedicated hunter seems like another way for the division of wildlife (DWR) to make a buck, but in my humble opinion, I feel that the hunter gets the upper hand in this one. The hunter, the deer, and the division all bennifit from this. It also gives the hunter a better chance at harvesting a bigger gerneral buck in those three years. Who cares if you don't kill a deer every year! Most people don't! I love to hunt, and to get the chance to hunt all fall long, vurses the 5 days in some places, I'd pay the extra dough and work for weeks! Odds for drawing a Southern tag for a resident are 1 in 2, so if you didn't draw this year, you probabally will next. No big loss! You may even draw two years in a row, just like the dedicated hunters, 2 deer in 3 years! But I still dont understand why people have such a hard time with a program that the pros out weigh the cons by a long ways! Dont you think that its a good deal?
~shedhunter~
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MuleyMadness
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30inchbucks
- Fawn
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:38 pm
I've been a member of the Dedicated Hunter Program since it started. I think there are some pros and cons to the program. The only pro that I can think of is the DWR gets alot more done with less $ with all the free labor, which I have never minded doing. I feel the wildlife has really benefited because of this aspect of the program. But I also feel the cons outweigh the benefits. Most dedicated hunters are concentrated on the Southern end of the state. Out of 10,000 dedicated hunters I'll bet 7,500 of them have Southern Region as region of choice. This puts way too much pressure on that region. Also, I believe 2 deer every 3 years is a great idea with good intentions but there are too many Utah hunters that hunt like grandpa did (never tag anything!). How many Dedicated Hunters do you think go out opening day of the archery hunt and kill or wound a deer and then actually stop hunting? My guess is not very many because they want to continue hunting and then also turn that tag back in for a chance at the Dedicated Hunter Draw! The program has good intentions but the only answer to our deer herd problems are MICROMANAGEMENT AND A DRAW!!! My vote is on the BAD side above as the program stands currently. Maybe it could be tweaked to make it better but the odds of that happening are slim.
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shedhunter
- Spike
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:27 am
- Location: Cedar City, UT
30inchbucks
I agree with you. The program does have it's down side and yes there is a majority of the participants that have Southern Region as their choice. This takes away from the general publics tags. The pressure would be the same, 18,000 hunters hunting the region regardless. But when looking at how many of the 18 thousand tags are left after the lifetime licence holders and dedicated hunters get their guaranteed tags, that only leaves 12,000 tags. Is this wrong?? I dont know.
I do think that the program does leave room for poachers though too. It would be hard to roadhunt and not find a shooter durring three hunts. I know of several people that have done just as you have said and just saved the tag. This is a bunch of crap! Just cause you have a tag doesn't mean you cant poach! These poachers should just as well drive to the Paunsagaunt and take a buck that would make it worth the jail time! As a law-abiding hunter, I feel that it is my obligation to turn folks like this in. Even if they are friends, simply talking to them about it helps. Help them see that it is still poaching and better yet you wont let that crap go on :twisted: . But thats just my feelings on the issue!
I agree with you. The program does have it's down side and yes there is a majority of the participants that have Southern Region as their choice. This takes away from the general publics tags. The pressure would be the same, 18,000 hunters hunting the region regardless. But when looking at how many of the 18 thousand tags are left after the lifetime licence holders and dedicated hunters get their guaranteed tags, that only leaves 12,000 tags. Is this wrong?? I dont know.
I do think that the program does leave room for poachers though too. It would be hard to roadhunt and not find a shooter durring three hunts. I know of several people that have done just as you have said and just saved the tag. This is a bunch of crap! Just cause you have a tag doesn't mean you cant poach! These poachers should just as well drive to the Paunsagaunt and take a buck that would make it worth the jail time! As a law-abiding hunter, I feel that it is my obligation to turn folks like this in. Even if they are friends, simply talking to them about it helps. Help them see that it is still poaching and better yet you wont let that crap go on :twisted: . But thats just my feelings on the issue!
~shedhunter~
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30inchbucks
- Fawn
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:38 pm
Shedhunter,
I originally joined the Dedicated Hunter program because I liked to hunt with the old flipper stick and also the smokepole and didn't want to give one of them up. Most hunters if they had to choose would choose the rifle. There would be less pressure on the Southern Region if there wasn't as many Dedicated Hunters. Their out there all three hunts. The general tag holder is only out there one. This statewide archery hunt has made the archery hunt in the Southern end of the state also like the general rifle hunt. I remember years ago hardly ever seeing another hunter on the archery hunt. Now look at it! What a circus! The muzzleloader seems to have the same problem. I don't know why it's like that but all that comes to mind is there must be alot of party hunting going on. I could go on and on about all this garbage but it all comes down to 2 things to solve the problem. I'll say it again, Micromanagement and a Draw! That's the answer. I know it hurts to think of the possibilities of not hunting every year in this great state, but something needs to be done. Continually giving out the same amount of tags every year is not working. Don't you think tags should have decreased over the last few years because of the drought we're in? If things were being managed properly there would have been some kind of dramatic decrease, but I haven't seen it yet. Chances are slim with the system we currently have in place. (Example, RAC's that are run by SFW which have all the say) RAC was suppose to be a public input meeting. What a major joke!!!! And another thing, I'd be glad to volunteer the same amount of time every year without receiving a tag all the time if I could see some positive changes taken place. I've been pruning trees for the last 9 years and I haven't seen any improvement yet have you? There are still no deer on the winter range where I used to see thousands. Go figure! Just some of my feelings don't take them personally. By the way, nice sheds you found in the other post. Sure wished I had the time to get out there.
I originally joined the Dedicated Hunter program because I liked to hunt with the old flipper stick and also the smokepole and didn't want to give one of them up. Most hunters if they had to choose would choose the rifle. There would be less pressure on the Southern Region if there wasn't as many Dedicated Hunters. Their out there all three hunts. The general tag holder is only out there one. This statewide archery hunt has made the archery hunt in the Southern end of the state also like the general rifle hunt. I remember years ago hardly ever seeing another hunter on the archery hunt. Now look at it! What a circus! The muzzleloader seems to have the same problem. I don't know why it's like that but all that comes to mind is there must be alot of party hunting going on. I could go on and on about all this garbage but it all comes down to 2 things to solve the problem. I'll say it again, Micromanagement and a Draw! That's the answer. I know it hurts to think of the possibilities of not hunting every year in this great state, but something needs to be done. Continually giving out the same amount of tags every year is not working. Don't you think tags should have decreased over the last few years because of the drought we're in? If things were being managed properly there would have been some kind of dramatic decrease, but I haven't seen it yet. Chances are slim with the system we currently have in place. (Example, RAC's that are run by SFW which have all the say) RAC was suppose to be a public input meeting. What a major joke!!!! And another thing, I'd be glad to volunteer the same amount of time every year without receiving a tag all the time if I could see some positive changes taken place. I've been pruning trees for the last 9 years and I haven't seen any improvement yet have you? There are still no deer on the winter range where I used to see thousands. Go figure! Just some of my feelings don't take them personally. By the way, nice sheds you found in the other post. Sure wished I had the time to get out there.
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MuleyMadness
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So I agree, the number of tags should have been decreased. Of course that would me less more for the DWR and possible job loss. Don't think they are willing to make a commitment. Don't see why not, every other busniness in America has. DWR is simply a business to me. With little imput or change from the average "joe blo" like me.
So my question is what can WE do? I've attended RAC meetings and will probably again. I understand your frustrations, I was in complete AWE last year at the amount of archery hunters. Not deer, hunters. I figured I'd see some good deer, I was way wrong.
In fact I saw way more archery hunters than I did on Muzzleloader and Rifle.
I'm willing to hunt less and keep paying money to, as long as I can see a decent buck when I do have a tag. Instead of chasing around a 2-point or not even seeing a 2-point for that matter. I've seen EVERY deer herd decline and decline drastically and we can't blame it all on the drought either. Zion unit, Parowan, Cedar Mtn., Pine Valley, Paunsaugunt, Dutton, Boulder Mtns., etc. The list goes on and on and on.........
So my question is what can WE do? I've attended RAC meetings and will probably again. I understand your frustrations, I was in complete AWE last year at the amount of archery hunters. Not deer, hunters. I figured I'd see some good deer, I was way wrong.
In fact I saw way more archery hunters than I did on Muzzleloader and Rifle.
I'm willing to hunt less and keep paying money to, as long as I can see a decent buck when I do have a tag. Instead of chasing around a 2-point or not even seeing a 2-point for that matter. I've seen EVERY deer herd decline and decline drastically and we can't blame it all on the drought either. Zion unit, Parowan, Cedar Mtn., Pine Valley, Paunsaugunt, Dutton, Boulder Mtns., etc. The list goes on and on and on.........
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30inchbucks
- Fawn
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:38 pm
MuleyMadness,
Yes, I am frustrated with the whole process and what's happening with our deer herd. When SFW first organized I thought they were going to be the answer and represent our interests, but boy was I ever wrong. Obviously, power and say comes with numbers. The average joe blo hunters like you and me are going to have to organize in order to change things. It would take alot of effort. That's what has to happen in order to change the garbage that is happening. Again, obviously you and I alone can't get it done. It has to come from every average joe blo hunter out there that is sick and tired of all the nonsense that want to get involved and take back what is rightfully ours!!! It's a huge task but it can be done. The way it stands now our mule deer will never rebound. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of all the promises along with the excuses. As far as I'm concerned, there are no excuses. It's a plain and simple answer of mismanagement. I could go on and on but I won't. By the way, there is a local organization over in the Kanab area that has organized in order to save the Paunsaugunt but it seems they're main focus is on the that unit for now. I joined it because I agree so far with what they're trying to do and I know some of the guys that organized it, they have a website if you want to check it out http://www.llotp.com. Let me know what you think.
Yes, I am frustrated with the whole process and what's happening with our deer herd. When SFW first organized I thought they were going to be the answer and represent our interests, but boy was I ever wrong. Obviously, power and say comes with numbers. The average joe blo hunters like you and me are going to have to organize in order to change things. It would take alot of effort. That's what has to happen in order to change the garbage that is happening. Again, obviously you and I alone can't get it done. It has to come from every average joe blo hunter out there that is sick and tired of all the nonsense that want to get involved and take back what is rightfully ours!!! It's a huge task but it can be done. The way it stands now our mule deer will never rebound. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of all the promises along with the excuses. As far as I'm concerned, there are no excuses. It's a plain and simple answer of mismanagement. I could go on and on but I won't. By the way, there is a local organization over in the Kanab area that has organized in order to save the Paunsaugunt but it seems they're main focus is on the that unit for now. I joined it because I agree so far with what they're trying to do and I know some of the guys that organized it, they have a website if you want to check it out http://www.llotp.com. Let me know what you think.
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MuleyMadness
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 9:34 pm
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30inchbucks
- Fawn
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:38 pm
MuleyMadness,
There are alot of Kanab folks on the list but there are a few others from other areas and the Northern part of the State. The costs to join are 20 dollars per individual and 30 dollars per couple. Again, power comes with numbers and they need all the names they can get. In order to join just click on the (email us) tab and they will answer back with all the details. They will also answer any questions or concerns you might have. The Paunsaugunt has gone downhill from where it used to be but I think the wheels are starting to turn to bring it back.
There are alot of Kanab folks on the list but there are a few others from other areas and the Northern part of the State. The costs to join are 20 dollars per individual and 30 dollars per couple. Again, power comes with numbers and they need all the names they can get. In order to join just click on the (email us) tab and they will answer back with all the details. They will also answer any questions or concerns you might have. The Paunsaugunt has gone downhill from where it used to be but I think the wheels are starting to turn to bring it back.