MuleyMadness Hunting Forums

I personally think it's wrong to say that group applications hurt odds. They do for some, but improve odds for others. If I had ten points and someone else has ten, but puts in with a friend with zero points, that group will drop to five. My odds increase as well as anyone else with six points or more. In this example, the people that would be hurt have five points or less.

The problem is not with group applications but with being able to turn a tag back in and still gain a point. The easiest solution is already being used in several other states. Don't allow people to turn a tag back in unless there is an extreme reason for it (i.e. military being deployed). In addition, if you do turn a tag back in you should not gain a point for that year.

As far as points for every species: Most average hunters complain about the expense involved in hunting. "It's becoming a rich mans sport." This is a perfect example of that. If everyone buys a point for every species then no ones odds increase, but we're all a little poorer. It does nothing positive for you and me. Everyone thinks that if we keep raising the prices that things will get better for those of us who "are really into hunting" because some people will drop out of the game. All we need to do is look in the past and realize that this rarely happens. Last year Utah made you purchase a hunting license first, but odds didn't improve at all (prices increase and odds stay the same or get worse). When they added points in Wyoming more people put in because everyone feels if they don't they'll get way behind (prices increase and odds stay the same or get worse). Who wins?

The people that this will absolutely hurt are the youth who can't buy points yet. Once they're of age they will be so far behind it may not be worth trying.

They need to either open it up for everyone to apply for everything (which still hurts odds), or leave it the way it is and make people pick their poison.

Well said ID hunter.


That's all this does for youth is makes it harder for them. Now they are not only behind those that are older, if they or there family can't afford to buy points for them they are behind everyone else who can. This is a horrible idea.

This is just another way that if you can 'afford' it then you have more opportunity. Now just the chance to hunt is getting expesive. It's to the point that you would be better off just saving your money and buying OIL tag.

Some great points, I'm not saying drop the points...just drop the 'apply for all species' option and like IDHUNTER said pick your poison.

I agree, the drop applying as a group helps some and hurts some, but the guy that just drew the tag a couple of years ago and now has a couple of points puts in with his brother who has lets say 9 points it increases odds for 2 and not 1. While the guy who is applying by himself may not get 1 tag before the other gets 2 tags. Fair? not really, then heck he could go to another buddy and convince him to let him apply with him also.

I guess it's 'sixes' either way, so again does anyone know the real reason behind the move??

I hate the... here is the plan/proposal without the reasons behind it.
I guess either way we/you look at it the odds aren't good and likely only getting worse? I guess I'm not smart enough to come up with a better solution.

no there are a lot of smart people out there with great plans, but, the RAC board see's so few people attending the RAC meetings and says that there isn't anyone that cares about it so they accept anything that the DWR proposes because there isn't enough people making noise that they have no reason to no go with the DWR.

I personally think if the RAC meetings are the only way to get anything changed or done we are in trouble. I don't feel we are ever going to get many people out to them. Unless things get REAL bad then maybe, but we still have a lot of positive things going and things aren't as doom and gloom as some make them out to be.

Right?

MuleyMadness wrote:I personally think if the RAC meetings are the only way to get anything changed or done we are in trouble.

I'm afraid you might be right. My biggest worry is that even if the majority show up and stand up for ourselves the "elites" will throw it back in our face. The RAC process is a joke and the Southern RAC proved that.

MuleyMadness wrote:we still have a lot of positive things going and things aren't as doom and gloom as some make them out to be.

I think you are absoultely right on this one.

Good news is that the other RAC's seem to have seen the light.

By the way from my perspective there was a good number of people that showed up to the Southern RAC. Especially when you consider that that there were at least 5 leaders of orginizations that showed up to represent themseleves and their respective groups ie UBA, SFW, Disabled hunters, BOU etc.... The fact that the voices were so admitally against some of the the DWR proposals like state wide spike hunting and state wide archery and nothing was done about it was frustating but it sounds like the other RAC's are working that out. Hopefully the board listens to what seems to be good reason from the other RAC's.

Like the gentlemen that represented the disabled hunters said, "It won't happen if you don't ask". People who don't show up to these meetings or work for what they think is right shouldn't complain about where things are or where they are going.

johnyutah5 wrote:People who don't show up to these meetings or work for what they think is right shouldn't complain about where things are or where they are going.

+1

I was disappointed by the lack of response from the southern RAC board. They didn't address a single proposal made by the public, not even the great one from the mobile impaired group. UBA made 3 proposals, we put lot of work into them, one was directed at creating more opportunity for youth hunters, the RAC simply recommended they be dealt with at the Wildlife Board, basically passing the buck. They then passed EVERYTHING the DWR recommended, even after the majority of the public AND RAC members voiced concern/opposition to many of them.

At least the southeastern and northeastern RAC's addressed some of the issues, and discussed many of the proposals, what a concept. There are two RAC's left, the Northern and the Central, show up and voice your stance. I was disappointed in the number in attendance at the southern, if you took away the DWR employees and the RAC board/wildlife board, there were less than 40 people there, with several of us coming from other parts of the state.

+1 pro

people need to start coming out to the meetings. it shows that rac board that there is still people that care.