Utahs Declining deer herd

[shedhunter]

Just a thought I had the other day. I posted this in another forum but think that it would make a good topic and I'd like to hear others suggestions on how to improve mule deer herds in Utah.

I think that Utah's elk herds are a success story. They manage the elk on an average age objective, not a bull to cow ratio like they do our deer herds. I got thinking, maybe since this age objective works so well for elk, why not try to use this on deer herds? This would let hunters take deer when they are in their prime, like they do elk. What do you all think? Would this work or not?

Let me know what ya think!

[Tracker J]

Shedhunter, how do you guys manage the elk herds? what are your seasons for them. Up here in my region we've got a huge hunting season for mule deer, and its always 4 point or better that you can shoot, except in october its any buck season. Works well here, but the deer arent pressured as much up here either.

[shedhunter]

The elk or deer seasons?

Well elk and deer start getting hunted in August and have very little time in between the archery, muzzleloader, and rifle hunts. Basically between the two, mid-November is when they stop hunting elk and the end of October is the end of deer season.

For Mule deer the Division of Wildlife Resources (DWR) manages them by buck to doe ratio. It is fairly low, like 15 bucks to every 100 does for general units. This is how they have managed them for a long time, but the mule deer dont seem to be doing as great as they have in the past.

Elk on the other hand, like I said earlier, are managed for the age of the bull. They have a population limit on the herd on a unit and issue cow tags if they are over the recommended population. On one unit close to town here, the average age of a harvested bull is around 8 years old, well into his prime and close to the beginning of regression.

If they would change the deer management to average age of bucks taken, they would be managing for quality deer, just like Utah's elk herds are currently managed.

Think about it, would you like to get luck every 4 years and kill a decent buck, or draw every four years and kill a smoker? I'd choose the second. I know that there are limited enrty units here, but I also think that this would improve them too.

Paunsagaunt has lots of bucks, but the quality is a lot lower than it has been in the past. They just offer too many tags. With age objective managementm, you cut tags to allow deer to grow up and keep the tags constant.

[MuleyMadness]

1st off, Shedhunter I like your ideas. The mule deer herds in Utah are in trouble and have been for quite some time. Having said that, they are much more difficult and tricky to manage than an elk herd. Elk simply survive better, and easier; especially during the winter. They trudge and live in snow much better than mule deer. The two don't seem to co-habitate very well. I watched a couple of big bulls a few summers ago chase and run a herd of deer out of a field on the dead run.

Utah's Elk save one unit (Fish Lake) has been a great success in my opinion. There was an amazing harvest this year, with some truly awesome bulls. I wish one could plant a small number of deer and they would take off like an elk herd does.

Just some thoughts for the moment.

[BOHNTR]

Now I'm no expert by any means, but what experience I DID learn during my tenure with the Fish & Game department taught me one simple thing in terms of deer management.

To increase a herd and trophy potential you must simply limit the amount taken during the year. It's that simple folks. But the only way to do this is cut the tag numbers dramatically. Unfortunately, two entities prevent this practice on a statewide level.......Hunters who pressure departments because they want to hunt every year AND still expect to see big bucks....and Game & Fish departments who stand to lose millions in revenue loss and need the money. Until these two factors are removed, we will continue to see declines. JMO

BOHNTR )))------------------>

[WYMULEYMAN]

BOHNTR:
you always seem to have a good answer for everything you post too. i am totally with you 110%! i can't deny one thing, i want to hunt every year and i like seeing big bucks every year, i don't have to kill one every year, but seeing them is great. as far as your other topic is concerned, unfortunately money is the root of all things. and you will never see this item removed from the picture. also, i think that tag numbers should be cut considerably! it will be for a long year when i don't get to hunt, but then i think of all those people from other states that don't hunt year in and year out, and i guess they are still alive right!! i couldn''t imagine not hunting. but if that is what it takes then so be it. i am heading out this coming up week end, may 1st to go shed hunting for the first time in the jackson area and i am really looking forward to that. was suppose to go bear hunting in montana this weekend but plans feel through.

[shedhunter]

As I am sure ya'll are aware, the state has five huge general units. They cant manage deer in a place as big as the two regions in the south. THere is just no way. I think the number of tags would definiately help, but there are always going to be those traditional areas that get hit hard. If they managed units as small single units, versus large collective units, they could actually manage deer. They are choosing the easy way out. Just cut or raise tags by 1000 or so and call it good. That isn't working either. How do you feel about smaller units instead of giant regions?

[MuleyMadness]

I'd be for the smaller units, it almost passed a couple of years ago. Just one or two of the region RAC councils couldn't get it through. So I don't see it happening real soon. It will come up again and hopefully go through this time. Something needs to change, so why not try the smaller units. I believe the SFW was for it the 25 or so regions right?

[Danthe2pointmuleyman]

Hey,

well heres the funny thing, the mule deer went to being a draw tag quite awhile ago while elk still remain being sold over the counter. its quite funny though because even though the mule deer is in the draw there are so many tags that by the start of the hunt the tags end up go over the counter so whats the point of the draw? as i have said before if they want success plz hand out less mule deer tags and btw this is my own opinion but mule deer are easier to hunt. anybody can go up on a 4 wheeler an see a muley but elk ahh thats a diff story theres much more hikin envolved so maybe ppl go for the easier thing, mule deer. just a thought but idk if its true or not

[Tracker J]

Interesting, that you say that, i was thinking bout posting a question on what ppl would rate mule deer hunting compared to other big game. Personally i beleive mule deer hunting is harder than hunting elk or moose, but talking on a more trophy level, shooting any mule deer is easy. Anyone can drive into the woods put a little time in a bag a muley but to take a truly large/trophy muley is very diffucult. I havent done alot of other hunting, the odd moose and elk hunt so this is only my opinion and i can't base it on a lifetime of hunting or anything. Any comments or opinions on this?
I met an older hunter a couple weeks ago, and he had a bunch of deer mounts in his house, and we got to talking about deer hunting and hunting in general. He said that he had given up deer hunting because it wasnt enough of a challenge and he was doing more moose and elk hunting. The thing was all his deer mounts would proabably score under 150 and he has a couple mounts of small barely 4 points. Not that im criticizing his hunting or anything just seemed like a hunter that goes out and shoots the first buck that he sees and thats the extend of his deer hunting.