MuleyMadness Hunting Forums

This is the new changes that passed at last nights RAC. even though every one of the public comment, or questions were against the change they still voted for it.
If this proposal goes through the other 4 RAC meeting it will result in your kids not being able to hunt a LE hunt ever.

1. Do away with group applications for limited entry elk, deer or pronghorn permits;

2. Continue to allow hunters to apply for only one limited entry species and one once-in-a-lifetime species, but let them also apply for bonus points for other species.

The DWR posted a statistic at the RAC asking showing the top 5 reasons that hunters want to draw tag. All 5 reasons were based around a social, family and friends. Not because they wanted to kill a big buck or bull. So my issues is why would they pass a proposal that WILL NOT allow you to put in as a group.

The second proposal that pass i my mind is absolutely insane. Utah has one of the best point systems out, to give someone at lease an opportunity to draw a LE tag if they put in long enough. The proposal that passed will not. If you allow everyone to by a bonus point for every species they want, eventually that will cause everyone to have so many points, that it will be nearly impossible for our kids to ever have a chance at drawing a LE quality tag.

I am trying to put together some statistic that will show the odds of drawing a tag in 15 years if they allow people to buy a point for every species.

One thing i found a little surprising is the low number of people that were at the Southern RAC meeting last night, and i know the elections were yesterday and people were voting but there were some major changes made last night and there were maybe only 40 people there to voice there opinion. We need more people to come out to the RAC meeting if we don't it might be to late in a couple years do anything. I just hope that anyone that is going to the other 4 RAC meeting really pays attention to the Bonus Point proposal. It wont effect use that put in for tags now but it will effect youth and the opportunity they will have in 15+ years.

I plan on being to the Central Rac meeting.

I for one support the getting rid of the group LE applications.
But I do not like the idea of letting people applie for other bonuse points.

DeadI wrote:I plan on being to the Central Rac meeting.

I for one support the getting rid of the group LE applications.

Whats your reason for getting ride of the group applications.

From what I have been told in talking to many different people on this subject is that they like the group applications for the aspect of "family hunts" however I don't see how more than one in a family has to have tags to have a family hunt. The hunt can still be enjoyed by the family even if it is just one in the family with a tag.

The reason I would be okay with them geting rid of the group applications is that it would do away with people with lots of points putting in with those that have few or no points and increasing their chance of a tag, and then when the tags are drawn turning there tag in the lower point person keeps his tag and the higher point tag get a point for that year. This is what I have a problem with. Now if there is another option that would eliiminate this than I am all ears.

Maybe they should make it so that if one turns the tag in then all turn there tags in, in the group. I just don't like them useing there points in this maner. I am not agains the group tags so to say, I am agains the higher point holders using there points and then turning the tag in and still geting a point back. But like I say I am all ears to other ideas that would get rid of this problem.

I completely agree with you DeadI as far as they way the high point holders are turning tags back in. I do like the fact of putting in as groups, just for the fact that my dad may never draw another elk tag with out putting in with me. of course i will not turn my tag back in, we will both hunt our tags.

My suggestion to eliminate that problem is to only allow a person to turn their tag back in 1 or 2 times what ever is decided. but after that they will ether have to use there tag or loose all their point. there was actually a
RAC board member that suggested that to be one of the changes in this issue but another board member shot it down.

What your thoughts about that suggestion

I think that would be okay. To allow them to turn the tag in once, but they should not get apoint when they turn it back in.

Was anything decided down there on the spike elk tag increase. This is another one that I think is a very bad idea, you don't get big bulls just automaticaly being born, they have to be a spike at one time inther life. Let the spikes grow and offer more branch antler tags. But don't kill off the future big bulls by increasing spike tags. I realy don't see what that is going to accomplish.

ya that was another one i disaggreed with. I think its rediculous that they do spike hunts on all the units. It will destroy the elk heard on the units with smaller elk population. If they want a spike hunt they need to rotate units every other year or every two years. Hopefully the statewide spike hunts get shut down in other RAC meetings.

I'm not for the spike Elk hunts either, the other 2 issues you brought up are not as critical to me.

I do see your points however and they are good.

Group applications DO HURT odds and I think that is one of the main reasons for getting rid of them.

The downside is that you may not have your whole family with a tag or friends. I don't see this as a huge problem, but will agree it will bother some and upset them. My family usually will tag along for the hunt, or as many as can even if we only have 1 tag. I know I do because I like getting out.

But I will admit, it's funner to have friends/parents/brothers etc. having a tag also. But most use it to play the odds in there favor by putting in with someone with HIGH points, which hurts the odds for everyone else IMO.

As for the Points for all species, I know this is getting bashed by a lot of people and I'm not so sure I see all the negativity. I personally would like to try the idea for a few years and see REALLY how much worse the odds will get. If it's not a big deal, then keep it and good idea. If it's a MESS, then drop it.

What is/was there reason for allowing this in the first place? Did they say at the RAC?

I would assume, partially again to make more money. But if they are charged a fair amount of cash, which I'm not saying is a good idea; how many people would realistically dump a bunch more money in for point??

Just some thoughts and ideas, I've been known to change my view if someone can show me a clearer picture.

MuleyMadness wrote:As for the Points for all species, I know this is getting bashed by a lot of people and I'm not so sure I see all the negativity. I personally would like to try the idea for a few years and see REALLY how much worse the odds will get. If it's not a big deal, then keep it and good idea. If it's a MESS, then drop it.

I see what your saying but once they start I don't see how they could ever go back. Can you imagine how upset people would be if they tried to drop the point system for Elk? I know it's not exactly the same because of the number of years that people have been putting in for ELK but in terms of investment/money it would be close very quickly. With OIL people would be putting in for up to 5 species per yer, dollar wise that adds up.

Personally I think we should get rid of bonus points all together and that's coming from a guy who should draw his Utah Elk Tag in the next couple of years. I think our limited entry units are too limited. I think the vast majority of our Elk should be available to the general public. To keep all of them from getting killed off, limit the number of rifle hunters and move the rifle hunt out of the rut. Make the majority of tags available to short range weapons. Just My 02

now especially with the economy the way it is there inst going to be as many people paying $106 every year to buy a point for every species maybe it will work out ok. i like the fact of buy points for all species only if it will not make it even harder for up coming youth.