Initiative 400
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proutdoors
- 3 point
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:52 am
- Location: Tooele County, Utah
Initiative 400
In 1989 Utah began issuing spike-only tags to increase the number of mature bulls on many of the elk units in Utah. The idea was to allow a certain percentage of the yearling bull elk population to be harvested while restricting the harvest of mature bulls. This also enabled the DWR to issue several thousand spike tags with low harvest numbers, allowing for many people the opportunity to hunt yearly with reduced harvest of the bull population. We believe the spike tag still has its place in the management of both elk and elk hunters. However, we also believe that in many areas, spike-only hunts are not the most effective management tool. Accordingly:
1) We propose eliminating the issuing of spike tags on the following five units (a): North Cache, Wasatch, Nebo, Fish Lake, and La Sal. We also propose introducing spike-only hunting to the following five units (b): San Juan, Monroe, Pahvant, Paunsaugunt, and SW Desert. This will allow more bulls to reach maturity on the (a) units, increasing the number of mature bulls that can be harvested yearly. This change will also reduce the bull:cow ratios on the (b) units which currently have an excess of mature bulls. Issuing spike tags for a determined time will reduce the number of bulls being recruited into the mature bull population without affecting quality. Although many spike-only tags will be eliminated, at least three new hunting opportunities will be created: Spike-only hunting on (b) areas, increased any-bull permits for (a) areas, and increased cow elk tags that can be issued in the future as a result of lowered bull:cow ratios on these units.
2) We propose changing the season dates on the (a) units to the following:
September 1-21 Limited Archery, any-bull
September 26-October 4 Limited Muzzleloader, any-bull
October 6-14 Limited Rifle any-bull
All three seasons Premium Limited any-bull
3) We propose changing tag allotments for the (a) units from 60/25/15 (any weapon/archery/muzzleloader) to 50/30/20. Giving more tags to primitive weapons combined with the season date changes will decrease harvest success rates, allowing for more mature tags to be issued for all weapon choices. We also propose that these tags be allocated by individual sub-units on the Wasatch unit.
4) We propose the (a) unit tags be issued thru a preference point drawing, while keeping the remaining 23 limited entry elk units under the current bonus point system. We propose hunters a one-time option of converting their elk bonus points into preference points, if desired. This could be done only when applying for the first time in the preference point drawing. There would be no waiting period for hunters successful in drawing an (a) unit permit.
5) We propose that tooth data and harvest/hunt reporting be mandatory for all hunters in (a) areas. Anyone failing to report would not be eligible to apply in the big game drawing the following year.
SUMMARY
We believe that by the changes in season dates, elimination of spike tags, getting bull to cow ratios in check with the EMP, mandatory reporting, tag allotment changes on the (a) units, more tags can be issued while maintaining quality. In addition, by redeploying the spike tags from the (a) units to the (b) units, the bull to cow ratios on the (b) units will become more inline with the desired ratios per the EMP. This proposal will allow more hunters the opportunity to hunt mature quality animals in Utah without losing yearly opportunities for OTC tags.
I would love feedback on this from you all. Thanks in advance.
PRO
1) We propose eliminating the issuing of spike tags on the following five units (a): North Cache, Wasatch, Nebo, Fish Lake, and La Sal. We also propose introducing spike-only hunting to the following five units (b): San Juan, Monroe, Pahvant, Paunsaugunt, and SW Desert. This will allow more bulls to reach maturity on the (a) units, increasing the number of mature bulls that can be harvested yearly. This change will also reduce the bull:cow ratios on the (b) units which currently have an excess of mature bulls. Issuing spike tags for a determined time will reduce the number of bulls being recruited into the mature bull population without affecting quality. Although many spike-only tags will be eliminated, at least three new hunting opportunities will be created: Spike-only hunting on (b) areas, increased any-bull permits for (a) areas, and increased cow elk tags that can be issued in the future as a result of lowered bull:cow ratios on these units.
2) We propose changing the season dates on the (a) units to the following:
September 1-21 Limited Archery, any-bull
September 26-October 4 Limited Muzzleloader, any-bull
October 6-14 Limited Rifle any-bull
All three seasons Premium Limited any-bull
3) We propose changing tag allotments for the (a) units from 60/25/15 (any weapon/archery/muzzleloader) to 50/30/20. Giving more tags to primitive weapons combined with the season date changes will decrease harvest success rates, allowing for more mature tags to be issued for all weapon choices. We also propose that these tags be allocated by individual sub-units on the Wasatch unit.
4) We propose the (a) unit tags be issued thru a preference point drawing, while keeping the remaining 23 limited entry elk units under the current bonus point system. We propose hunters a one-time option of converting their elk bonus points into preference points, if desired. This could be done only when applying for the first time in the preference point drawing. There would be no waiting period for hunters successful in drawing an (a) unit permit.
5) We propose that tooth data and harvest/hunt reporting be mandatory for all hunters in (a) areas. Anyone failing to report would not be eligible to apply in the big game drawing the following year.
SUMMARY
We believe that by the changes in season dates, elimination of spike tags, getting bull to cow ratios in check with the EMP, mandatory reporting, tag allotment changes on the (a) units, more tags can be issued while maintaining quality. In addition, by redeploying the spike tags from the (a) units to the (b) units, the bull to cow ratios on the (b) units will become more inline with the desired ratios per the EMP. This proposal will allow more hunters the opportunity to hunt mature quality animals in Utah without losing yearly opportunities for OTC tags.
I would love feedback on this from you all. Thanks in advance.
PRO
The Mind can only serve one Master, either gratitude or despair--but not both.
I would hate to see your state turn into something like Colorados elk hunting.(Lots of opportunity and not much quality). 
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proutdoors
- 3 point
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:52 am
- Location: Tooele County, Utah
RooDog, I do not think this will turn these areas into Colorado. If I did, I would not be a part fo it. I guided in SW Colorado for several years, I have no desire for Utah LE units to resemble OTC units in Colorado. We want to manage for between 30-40/100 bull/cow ratios with average harvest ages 3-4 and 4-5 depending on the unit. We consider a mature bull to be one that is 3+ years old.
MTGriz, give me a PM if you are interested in joining the ranks. We welcome any and all who are interested in increasing opportunity while maintain quality.
9r, I have delayed posting here until we ironed out a few wrinkles. I also do NOT want to hijack this forum. So, I ask that all keep is civil and positive.
Avs man, I feel your pain, I spent many falls in Colorado, where opportunity takes precedence over quality. While here in Utah quality takes precedence over opportunity. I think there can be a balance between the two. That is what Initiative 400 is striving for. We are not looking at the top-end units for this either. We want to maintain the world class hunting in Utah. I personally will continue to apply for a premium unit not part of Initiative 400. I am a guide who takes conservation tag hunters after the 400+ bulls.
PRO
MTGriz, give me a PM if you are interested in joining the ranks. We welcome any and all who are interested in increasing opportunity while maintain quality.
9r, I have delayed posting here until we ironed out a few wrinkles. I also do NOT want to hijack this forum. So, I ask that all keep is civil and positive.
Avs man, I feel your pain, I spent many falls in Colorado, where opportunity takes precedence over quality. While here in Utah quality takes precedence over opportunity. I think there can be a balance between the two. That is what Initiative 400 is striving for. We are not looking at the top-end units for this either. We want to maintain the world class hunting in Utah. I personally will continue to apply for a premium unit not part of Initiative 400. I am a guide who takes conservation tag hunters after the 400+ bulls.
PRO
The Mind can only serve one Master, either gratitude or despair--but not both.
Utah has good elk management for people who like to hunt big bulls once in their lives or people who can afford to buy conservation tags. In my opinion there needs to be more balance and I think this initiative is a step in the right direction. I see selfish people who have high points or other agendas saying that we need to leave it the way it is. I'm sitting on nine points for elk right now and so I will likely be able to hunt big bulls with a bow or muzzleloader within the next 5-10 years. However, the young kids who are just entering the system have a LONG wait ahead of them. I still can't figure out why we hunt elk with a rifle during the rut, but not deer? Don't get me wrong....I don't think we should be rifle hunting deer during the rut, I'm just making a point. There are too many people out there looking for an easy hunt once they draw a tag and that's exactly what hunting elk during the rut with a rifle is. Give more primitive weapon hunts during the rut like Arizona and New Mexico and drop the number of easy rifle rut hunts. Arizona and New Mexico are desert states with some dandy bulls being shot every year. We don't need to make elk hunting like it is in Colorado.......but we do need to make the deer hunting here like it is there...LOL.
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awholelottabull
- Spike
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:20 am
- Location: Utah
- Contact:
Bart,
You know my feeling on this. I have never thought hunting elk during the rut with a rifle was much of a challenge. I think that we could eliminate the spike hunting in several units in the state and be just fine. I support this initiative whole hearted. I believe anyone with kids that hunt should be in support of this. If things are kept the way they are, some of our kids will never be able to hunt big bulls in their lifetime.
You know my feeling on this. I have never thought hunting elk during the rut with a rifle was much of a challenge. I think that we could eliminate the spike hunting in several units in the state and be just fine. I support this initiative whole hearted. I believe anyone with kids that hunt should be in support of this. If things are kept the way they are, some of our kids will never be able to hunt big bulls in their lifetime.
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MuleyMadness
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9997
- Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 9:34 pm
- Location: St. George, UT
- Contact:
I don't have a problem with this initiative either, I've hesitated to jump in or on board simply because my Elk knowledge in the state and current overall knowledge I feel is lacking. Been a while since I've hunted Elk and might be yet another LONG while before I do? However I LOVE them and love seeing them.
My only exception to your Initiative would be on the Paunsaugunt unit where you suggest introducing Spike Elk Hunts. It seems to me that the DWR has been and is wiping out the Elk herd there. There is already a lack of big mature bulls there and not near the Elk herd there use to be.
It also needs to be taken off the Premium Elk Draw IMO, as the pickings can be slimmer and tougher than other units for sure.
The biggest and best herd compete with the Deer and I believe this unit should focus on BIG MULE DEER!
So having spike hunts there, might just make the Elk herd even worse. I'm not against it, just stating what I think it will be like and do to the herd.
My only exception to your Initiative would be on the Paunsaugunt unit where you suggest introducing Spike Elk Hunts. It seems to me that the DWR has been and is wiping out the Elk herd there. There is already a lack of big mature bulls there and not near the Elk herd there use to be.
It also needs to be taken off the Premium Elk Draw IMO, as the pickings can be slimmer and tougher than other units for sure.
The biggest and best herd compete with the Deer and I believe this unit should focus on BIG MULE DEER!
So having spike hunts there, might just make the Elk herd even worse. I'm not against it, just stating what I think it will be like and do to the herd.