A WHOLE BUNCH OF RELOADING QUESTIONS
killerbee
10/11/10 8:38pm
well i figured i could make 5 new post or just throw them all in one :-k
so feel free to pick just one, if you have a good answer, or pick em' all ( i do appriciate it, although i cant spell it...)
SOOOO
1: im going with the neck sizing, it is working good. but what i cant figure out is--
i'll load 10 bullets, they will all turn out great( i chamber every round) but then i will have "1" that pushes the shoulder of the case almost flat? this was my original problem ( why i had to fire form the 20 shells tonight) that round wont chamber, or is very hard to close the bolt on, but then the next 10 or so will be great?? WTH? everything is tight, i even went as far as to steal an extra nut off another set of dies to lock my nut on the die into place?
2: what scale is more accurate- my RCBS digitol scale, or the older version balance scale?
i've been weighing every round with both scales, it seems the balance scale is more accurate?
sometimes i can add 5-8 grains of powder before the digitol will change, but the balance scale will move with almost every granual of powder. sometimes i get a reading of 79 gr on the digital, move it to the balance it will be low- the next one read 79.0 on the digital , and it will be way high? WTH?
3: am i being to picky one my weighing?
i had a full factory box of weatherby bullets givin to me, they are probably 10 yrs old, but great brass. i decided to just pull the bullets so i can reload them with these tripleshocks.
out of curiosity- i weighed each charge. they varied from 88.2 gr to 89.9 gr? and there was no 2 loads the same?
i try so hard to get them exact , but apparently the factory doesn't see a need to be that exact?
4: kinda on the same level- but in my book 79 gr is the "max load", i've always loaded 79 gr, so now with the question of my digital scale, my balance scale, and factory ammo not being very precise, is it really unsafe to go up to 80 gr? ( i'm not planning on it- just a ?) in my theory, with the inconsistancy, i'm probably shooting a few bullets that are 1 gr. over?
again, i'm measuring EVERY load 2 times, and they are not getting dumped in the case untill my balance scale says they are perfect( again, the digital just doesn't seem that accurate) ( sometimes i drop 2 grains of powder IN the scale, and the readout goes to a LOWER number ](*,) ](*,) )
sometimes i think i might be just as good setting up the powder dump, getting it as close as possible, and just dumping every load and set the bullet
what do you think?
so feel free to pick just one, if you have a good answer, or pick em' all ( i do appriciate it, although i cant spell it...)
SOOOO
1: im going with the neck sizing, it is working good. but what i cant figure out is--
i'll load 10 bullets, they will all turn out great( i chamber every round) but then i will have "1" that pushes the shoulder of the case almost flat? this was my original problem ( why i had to fire form the 20 shells tonight) that round wont chamber, or is very hard to close the bolt on, but then the next 10 or so will be great?? WTH? everything is tight, i even went as far as to steal an extra nut off another set of dies to lock my nut on the die into place?
2: what scale is more accurate- my RCBS digitol scale, or the older version balance scale?
i've been weighing every round with both scales, it seems the balance scale is more accurate?
sometimes i can add 5-8 grains of powder before the digitol will change, but the balance scale will move with almost every granual of powder. sometimes i get a reading of 79 gr on the digital, move it to the balance it will be low- the next one read 79.0 on the digital , and it will be way high? WTH?
3: am i being to picky one my weighing?
i had a full factory box of weatherby bullets givin to me, they are probably 10 yrs old, but great brass. i decided to just pull the bullets so i can reload them with these tripleshocks.
out of curiosity- i weighed each charge. they varied from 88.2 gr to 89.9 gr? and there was no 2 loads the same?
i try so hard to get them exact , but apparently the factory doesn't see a need to be that exact?
4: kinda on the same level- but in my book 79 gr is the "max load", i've always loaded 79 gr, so now with the question of my digital scale, my balance scale, and factory ammo not being very precise, is it really unsafe to go up to 80 gr? ( i'm not planning on it- just a ?) in my theory, with the inconsistancy, i'm probably shooting a few bullets that are 1 gr. over?
again, i'm measuring EVERY load 2 times, and they are not getting dumped in the case untill my balance scale says they are perfect( again, the digital just doesn't seem that accurate) ( sometimes i drop 2 grains of powder IN the scale, and the readout goes to a LOWER number ](*,) ](*,) )
sometimes i think i might be just as good setting up the powder dump, getting it as close as possible, and just dumping every load and set the bullet
what do you think?
9,961
I have only been studying reloading and actually reloading for 3 years or so but I will do my best to answer what I can.
1. When neck sizing if I remember right you don't really need to lube the case before sizing. You didn't mention if you have been or not but if not you might want to try it and see if that helps. I know on my cases the shoulder is what I have problems with after I've fired them a number of times.
2. I have stuck with my manual lyman balance scale. It is very consistant and measures every grain of powder. Through my readings I have found that measuring the powder by volume not the weight is more Accurate. So I went and got this:
It seems to speed me up and keep a consistant level of powder.
3. I don't think you are being too picky about weighing your powder because I am the same way. it does slow down the process but I beleive consitancy created better accuracy.
4. I think that Max loads in these books are more to protect the manufacturer of the books and not the shooter. With that being said with most loads and rifles you would be safe to load them past the max load but you should always test some of the lesser loads for their pressures and velocities out of your rifle before stepping it up past suggested max loads.
Just my .02 and I am sure others will have better advice.
It sounds like something got stuck up in your die. Does the dent show up in the same spot each time?
SS- no worries, just when you get a chance, dont take time from life to worry about it. no problem AT ALL!! :thumb
Take your die apart and clean it really good and then follow the manufacturers recomendations after that. What brand of dies are you using that is giving you trouble, Big R and Killer Bee?
My Lyman digital scale requires calibrating before and during use to make sure it satys accurate, a balance scale should be used in conjunction witha digital to verify accuracy every so many rounds IMO. I like to use a redding BR comp, powder drop and then weigh the charge on the digital scale, I then trickle to the exact amount and then pour into the case witha charge funnel. This is the most accurate way for me to ensure consistency with my loads.
Killer Bee maybe spend the money and get a neck sizing die or check out the X sizer die I sent you the link too. A neck sizer die is not necessar but seems you are having issues, you also may want to take the die apart and clean it, as you may have a build up of lube as you state that it happens like ebery 7th or something case?
Springville shooter will be able to probably give you a good idea of what may be happening, but the Wby cases have a double radius shoulder and I dont load any wby's right now but I am curious is the shoulder would be affected easier than a satndard shoulder due to lube build up.
Weatherby cases inherently have problems due to their double-radius shoulders, you must use care when sizing and seating to avoid putting excess pressure on the shoulder. Try using a neck lube when sizing, or maybe even getting a tapered expander for your die to reduce friction. Be sure to chamfer your cases well before seating bullets, this is where I always smash Weatherby cases. The shoulders get weaker with every firing, so keep that in mind.
As far as your scale issues, STOP using the digital and send it in to be serviced right away. Pick up a powder trickler and use your balance scale until the digital is repaired and works properly registering tenths of a grain as powder is trickled. You must have total confidence in the accuracy of your powder charges for safety and accuracy. I can usually see deviation on the chronograph with a 2-3 tenths of a grain difference in loads, so be meticulous.
The differences in charges of factory loads is common, but could be explained by the cartridges coming from different boxes originally. Manufacturers often change loads and every lot af ammo could be a little different.
Approach Max loads with caution looking for pressure signs on your cases. Most of the time you can achieve conservative published loads, but do it one step at a time and carefully. I find that most of my guns perform best a little below published maximums and gun/case life are extended with milder loads. I don't think the deer or targets can tell the difference.
Hope this helps, ----------SS
I have seen this before especially on cases that have been fired a few times. I might not be anything you are doing different as cases weaken differenty based on original case perameters and how the brass has flowed and been trimmed during firing and reloading. I still have this happen to me once in a while when loading Weatherby cases. There are things that you can do to help, but in my experience, you will eventually begin to lose a few after 4-5 firings. Sorry man, hot rods are expensive to run! :thumb .... but well worth it.-----------SS
As for your digital scale being off, I've had different experiences with that. I bought the RCBS electric powder dispenser/scale about 3 years ago and it's awesome! It has an automatic trickle dispenser on it too, so I can watch each granule fall in and the scale picks it up almost every time. I don't know if I've ever seen more than 2 granules fall in without the weight going up 1/10th of a grain. I've loaded various charges and then gone back and dumped them back on the scale when I was done and they still measured the same, so I feel confident that my digital scale is consistent. My dad has an older RCBS digital scale though, and if you don't let it sit for a few minutes and "zero" itself, it will sometimes measure inconsistently. I've also had this problem with the scale if I leave it on for an extended period of time (overnight). And I'm sure you're not, but make sure you're not working in a space with lots of wind/air conditioning...that can throw the scale off too.
I don't think you're being too picky either. I make sure every load is measured to the 1/10th of a grain....does it matter? I don't know, but it seems to work so I'll stick with it! :)
For the max loads, I think the pressure is really what you need to be looking at. Some manuals have the pressure ratings and some don't. Mine doesn't, but you can usually look up the info. online. I agree with Sneeke that the max loads are usually to protect the publisher, but at the same time, I don't ever load over them. Heck, just going from manual to manual can be off 2+ grains between max loads. Often times, the max loads don't shoot the best (most accurate) anyway.
Not sure if this helps, but figured I'd try!
as far as the digital scale- i think i will send it in. it sounds like it should be reading better tahn it is. i am glad that i used the balance scale to confirm everyload. the digital will take sometimes 5 little grains of powder before it will update it's reading and sometimes i will put up a LOWER number (???) i do use a RCBS powder trickler, i do everything i can to not touch the powder or primers with my hands. i dont know, just they way dad always taught me. i've never had an issues with missfires so i believe it must help.
i have a couple more question, after work i want to throw out- hey i'm just a sponge, soaking up the great info, sorry if it's a pain in the butt:) thank - brian
I agree with SS that your scale is defective- send it in!
tip: When using a digital or manual scale- never remove powder to get to your desired weight, if you go over your desired amount, start over. tricklers are especially handy in this area.
in reference to your flattening shoulders, I have two thoughts:
1) is it possible that the expander ball is too close to the neck portion of the die? if the neck is trying to pass through both peices at the same time it would find resistance and flatten the shoulder. This is not likely on a longer case (as I assume your weatherby is) but can happen on shorter cases like a 308 win.
2) are you lubing the neck? rolling them on a pad can sometimes leave the neck dry. combined with a little grime in the die you'd easily crush a shoulder or two. you could also try chamfering the outside of the neck before sizing just to give it a little easier entry into the neck portion of the die. I reccomend hornady "one shot" lube. place the cases in a loading block and spray them down. the lube enters the inside of the neck, which is necessary to reduce stretch. it dries in less than a minute and acts more like a wax. wonderful stuff!
I have seen many dents on the shoulder from too much lube, but never on the neck. only thing i can think of is maybe the die is chipped inside????? #-o
Mark
Mark