Arizona Applications are out.

Thanks for the heads up on the application deadline. I do have some questions on the draw process. Im not sure I completely understand how AZ works bonus pts in the draw for Non-residents. I know that they have up to 10% of the total tags for Non-residents in any given unit. But I get a little confused after that....So is it that of those 10 % of the non-res tags ...20% of those tags go to the max points holders that apply for that unit? Does that mean a guy like me that has no points could draw a unit 9 or 10 tag the very first year I apply? Anybody understand how it all works for Non - residents in AZ?

from what i have read, and from what my nephew tells me, ( he lives in AZ ) as a nonres if you don't have 12 to 15 points you don't have any chance of drawing a unit 9 or 10 tag. he has i believe 9 points and he only applies for unit 9 and he hasn't drawn a tag in a long time.

Kevin

This is the way I understand it. If someone knows better, please jump in.

If a unit has 50 tags, 10 (20%) of them go to the applicants with the most points. Also, up to 5 (10%) of the 50 can go to nonresidents.

Here is where it gets tricky. Because 45+ go to residents and 5 or less go to nonresidents the resident hunters are moving through the point system much faster than nonresidents. This is leaving a very large portion of max point holders as nonresidents. The result of this is that when the 20% is taken for the max point holders (10 tags), the biggest group of people drawing those tags are nonresidents because they are the max point holders. But, nonresidents can only have up to 5 tags, so once those 5 tags are drawn the rest go to residents. What is happening in the better units is that the entire nonresident quota is being filled by max point holders. This leaves nothing left for those with less than max. Basically it has become a preference point state (in the top units) for nonresidents.

What I would like to see happen in the future is the nonresident tags to be pulled out of the draw right off the front. This would give 5 tags to the nonresidents for their own separate draw. 1 tag (20%) would go to a max point holder, and 4 tags would be left in a random draw. This would give anybody a chance at some of the premier units.

As it is right now. If you would like an opportunity to draw you must put in for a unit that doesn't have a large portion of max point holders putting in for.

I hope that all made sense. I promise it works in my head (???) .

IDHunter, thank you for the explaination of the process. If this really is the case I will be waiting a LONG time to draw. I think Id have bettter odds of drawing a Pahvant or San Juan tag at the Expo then drawing a unit 9 or 10 tag in the next 10 years. lol

bergy:

There are several other units you can apply for other than unit 9 or 10.........and the max point holders are not an issue. Do a little research with their statistics book and you'll see some interesting things.

IDHunter got it pretty much right. I'm a long time Arizona non-resident applicant, and have enjoyed some fantastic hunts in Arizona for elk and mule deer. Unfortunately, nearly all of those hunts have been by helping other hunters on their tags, though I have drawn unit 9 elk twice, once for archery in 1994 and again in 1996 for late rifle. At this point, I have 12 elk points, 13 deer points, 14 sheep points and 17 antelope points going into this year's draw. As a non-resident I will get to go on one fantastic premium hunt for each of those and then I'll likely never draw again unless I move to Arizona. After drawing that one tag for each species, I'll be applying for lesser units that still give me a chance to draw, and I'll have some great hunts with very good quality animals in those units too. Of course, sheep are a crap shoot and I will likely never draw that in my life, but I'll keep applying until I eventually draw or I can no longer hunt.

Keep in mind that most of the elk units offer a premium hunting experience compared to most other areas, not only the very top units. Most elk hunters will never kill a 320 class bull in their lifetimes, and every single Arizona elk unit has bull that big, and bigger. If you haven't killed a big bull before, why would you wait many years to try to draw unit 9 or 23, which you'll never likely do unless you have at least 10 points already, when you can draw just about any unit and kill a nice bull. Every Arizona unit has bigger bulls than most hunters will ever kill in their lifetimes, so put in for a drawable unit, have a great hunt and kill a real nice bull. If you do, then you can get pickier. The tougest units to draw are those handful that are considered to be the units that have the potential to put out a giant bull, something over 375, on a regular basis. Those units are unit 9,10,23, and some would say 3a-3C, 1 and 8. Quite a few poeople don't regard unit 8 as being nearly as good as 9 or 10, but Danny Moore from Montana killed a 400" bull the first mornign of his archery hunt there about 4 years ago. After that hunt, he applied for an easer to draw unit, either 4A or 4B, I don't remember which. He killed a real nice bull scoring in the low 300s on that 2nd hunt. Now, Danny Moore is a better elk hunter than most of us can ever hope to be, but I use him as a great example of how a smart hunter looks at the Arizona application game.

Keep in mind that there are a bunch of other really good units like 6A, 5A and 5B. I've hunted one of these units twice, once helping a buddy on his archery hunt, and he killed a freak 6 pt. on the 6th evening. We saw bulls as large as 350 class on this hunt. My other hunt there was when my then 16 year old son drew his first ever elk tag, an early muzzleloader tag. He killed a 334" bull on the third evening, after losing an opportunity to kill a 360 class 6x7 bull on opening morning. Not too bad of an elk hunt for a 16 year old. My last elk hunt in AZ was two seasons ago in 22 south, which is not considered a very good unit. A close friend drew a muzzleloader tag, and he killed a 305 bull on the 2nd evening. It was the smallest 6 pt bull we saw, but he was happy with it. We saw a 350-360 bull and another that I think would have scored around 340-345. Not too bad for two days in one of the poorest units in AZ. I think most guys would be thrilled to see 3 diferent 6 point bulls like those in two days of hunting, all in reasonable range.

The bottom line is, if you want to go elk hunting in Arizona, apply in a unit you can get drawn in, 3B, 4A, 4B, 5A, 5B, 6A, they're all good if you know how to hunt elk. You have a legitimate chance to kill a 320 clas bull in all of them, and also a chance to kill a 350+ class bull in any of them too.

Now that I've said all that, the only units I personally consider for my 12 elk points are 9 or 23. I don't care if I have to wait another 5 or 6 years to draw as I have a lot of elk points in other states and get to go on some pretty good hunts every few years. As for deer, I'm applying only for 13A and 13B, as I'm determined to use my points on a one time strip hunt, and then we'll apply for easier to draw units after that. My son burned his deer points three years ago on a late Kaibab tag, and killed a 188" buck a couple days after his 19th birthday.

Arizona has incredible hunting in most units, not just the most premium units.

Well, today is the deadline with applications due in AZGFD's offices in a few hours. What did you apply for? Or, did you miss the deadline this year?

DLS you have got some good info in your above post. Thanks. As a out of state applicant I have always thought that I should wait however many years it takes to get my Unit 9, 3A-3C, or 10 or 23N archery tag. I see by the great pics on these and other sites that almost any unit will fulfill my dream of getting a chance at a 350 class bull. I just applied for another point this year but in future years I will have to rethink my strategy.

I guess I missed this thread several months ago, but I don't get on here nearly as much as I used to. IDHunter's explanation of Arizona's system is one of the best I've read, and is very accurate. There are only a couple things I'd take issue with, and the last paragraph is one of them. You state:

"What I would like to see happen in the future is the nonresident tags to be pulled out of the draw right off the front. This would give 5 tags to the nonresidents for their own separate draw."

That implies that nonresidents are guaranteed 10% of the tags so that they could be taken out ahead of time. As you correctly stated in your explanation, they get "up to" 10% of the tags. They potentially could get 0%. Since no number of tags is guaranteed, they can't pull them out right off the front.

The second thing I disagree with, is how you guys say it's hard to get a Unit 9 archery bull tag. Heck, I drew one this year with no problem! (...ok, maybe I had a ton of points and made the max point pool.... :-$ )

Marvin

StickFlicker I expect to see a bunch of pics of your smiling face with a monster unit 9 bull this fall. Good luck with my tag!!!!!!!!

Here's a picture of the bull I took on my last hunt in this same unit (back in the late 90's). My goal is to improve on him (by hopefully 40 inches or so)!

Nice Bull, my nephew drew a unit 9 archery tag too. his biggest so far net score was 393" and grossed over 400". good luck on your hunt.

Kevin

The second thing I disagree with, is how you guys say it's hard to get a Unit 9 archery bull tag. Heck, I drew one this year with no problem! (...ok, maybe I had a ton of points and made the max point pool.

Yeah, not too difficult.....when you're a resident. :)

I think that's AWESOME Marvin you drew that tag.......again! I sure hope you let the air out a dream bull........it's definitely the year to do so with all that moisture up there.

CONGRATS to all who drew!

Marvin, that is one heck of a bull and I would love to hear that you have indeed improved on him by 40"! Good luck buddy!