Do we have a predator problem?

Hello, Utah guy here. Just wanted to get some advise from folks around the west on a predation issue in Utah.

Now these numbers are directly from the Utah Department of Wildlife Resources so who knows how accurate they are.

On the Monroe unit the estimated winter population is 6300 deer 1200 under objective. Right now they are doing a very comprehensive cougar study on the unit. They have collared 20 lions. They have a population estamate of 40 loins. There are no figures on coyote populations. Approx 800 bucks and 200 doe are hunter harvested off the unit on average per yr.

I would welcome anyone's advise on the matter. Especially some perspective from some guys outside of Utah. :thumb
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Absolutely. Look at the numbers you sited. Predators take does that are needed to maintain, or grow, the current population. In any unit where the deer population is below carrying capacity: Ask yourself: How can you grow a deer population if the does are being killed?
If you ask old timers that hunted when deer populations were high,(like back in the 1960's through the 80's), most will agree that predator populations were at much lower levels then than they are today.
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I live here, It sucks to be told that there is no problem it has a lot to do with other organizations telling the DWR how to do there job. Utah
DWR has some great people Handling things they just need to be left alone to do what need to be done.
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waynedevore
Coyotes take a lot of deer.Especially young fawns and during Winter.
The researchers will find that the 20 collared lions will kill about 520 deer per year.
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MuleyMadness
Yes we/you have a predator problem. But that isn't the only concern and especially on the unit you just mentioned. You have a big Elk heard there and that is negatively impacting the deer herd on that unit IMO.
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The Ox
ive heard there are a lot of lions on monroe.... heck of a lot more than forty!
i agree with mm might be a combo of lions and elk.
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The Ox
"olddenny" wrote:I live here, It sucks to be told that there is no problem it has a lot to do with other organizations telling the DWR how to do there job. Utah
DWR has some great people Handling things they just need to be left alone to do what need to be done.
 i disagree i think the utah dwr are all a bunch of idiots!
with the exception of one or two possibly...
the utah dwr doesnt know how to do there job! imho!
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Loafer
Predators are only part of the problem, I think mismanagment or no management is the bigger issue. DWR needs to come up with a plan that has a chance to succeed and rebuild the herds. Predator management should be part a good deer management plan.
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Hey all you Utah hunters, I feel all the pain. Be thankful that you guys and gals don't live in Idaho. We have the largest predator population in the west. I shoot as many coyotes, cougars and bears possible. I haven't got a wolf YET. It would be nice to see some of the Fish and Game offices get handle on some of the predator problems. Just thought i throw out my two sense.
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I think these does had a predator problem by the looks of their ears. I saw one that had a scar on her flank and hinquarters too. This was just last year. There was also few does with fawns. This was in the Lasals. Seems to be an abundance of bears and lions there.
Mark
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DeadI
I think there is a big predator problem, coyotes may not be able to bring down alot of full grown adult deer or elk, but they sure can do damage on the fawns in the spring time. As for cougars they are gain hold in the west at an alarming rate, just the other night there were 3 young cats running around up that the Univ. of Utah campus, now granted the campus is near the foot hills but you just did not hear of things like this 5 - 10 years ago, they are gaining in numbers and sightings, that tells me there is a problem with them and the game animals.

As for the unit you mentioned, the monroe, for them to say that there is only 40 lions on that unit is BS. I would be willing to bet there is 3 times + that many in a unit that large. JMO
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Springville Shooter
Are you sure that the damage to these animals was not form frostbite? I used to see deer in California that were missing ears and tails due to frostbite. I too believe that there are predator problems all throughout the west. Imagine California with an all out moritorium on any typ of lion harvest. I also agree that coyotes have alot more impact than people think. This is where we can do our part to help. Those of us who love big game need to be helping to keep the coyote population in check during these long winter months when we complain about having nothing else to do. I challenge each of you guys to post a picture of at least one deceased fawn muncher on the forum this year. Hopefully I will be posting my Idaho wolf soon as well.----shooter
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I think this one died of lion bite.
Mark
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stillhunterman
Yep, predators do take their share of deer that's for sure. And I agree with some of the others that yotes take a pretty good toll on fawns. As far as to why the unit is below objective, I think it is probably like so many other places out west. Many things contribute to this problem including predators, habitat (specifically winter), weather (bad), management policies, human enchroachment (habitat), roads-roads-roads, and a few other things. If you don't have the does, you won't have a heard that grows. It's a tough issue for sure.
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Goofy Elk
Wow,,,,A few comments here are NOT cool..
I spend 200 days a year in the mountains.. 62 this year chasing lions,,done it for 20 years.

I spent quite a bit of time on Monroe this year,,20 colored cats is correct ,, about 40 total
counting kittens is also correct. Any statement referring to "alot more" is false..

The deers ears is frostbite..

The statements about coyotes are 100% true, More tracks, and signs of them EVERYWHERE
this year than ever....Ive found 10 coyote kills to every 1 lion kill this year..

The comment of about 500 deer to 20 collard lions per year is probably very close,,,,
time will tell for sure..

And for cats "gaining"??? Maybe on the west coast, but sure as hell not in Utah.
Lion numbers here have been declining since 1997,,Harvest Objective has ruined lion hunting.

And as far as lions go in Utah ,,The new lion management plan is in place until 2021,,
Populations will increase over and lion hunting opportunities will decrease over the next 10 years........Complaining will do nothing, get used to it.
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Get used to it? My bet is when push comes to shove 150,000 big game hunters wants will knock the socks off 30 houndsman playing tag. You aught to train them hounds to chase chupacabra because if we have our way there will be more of them than cougar. :222 ****banana :1 :333

The last part is just a razz. :thumb

Now the question is will the big game hunters push? It only take one and the rest to follow.
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stillhunterman
150,000 big game hunters will complain about anything they think is taking away their opportunity to hunt, and to hunt BIG animals. Cougars do take a fair amount of animals, but are not even in the top 5 reasons for the deer population not being up to par. But you are right, sometimes all it takes is ONE to lead the charge, and the sheep will follow blindly. Sad for sure...
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Goofy Elk
The one thing that the Utah DWR does ,,And Dose VERY well,, Is follow management plans.

Its been this way for 40 years I know of, Once a management plan is put in place they will
follow it to its EXACT wording for the time period it covers..
The aggressive predator management plan that was in place for many years had little or no
affect on deer heard sizes..

The new lion management plan has big changes,,,,including discouraging harvesting females..

And one more thing,,,That picture claiming to be a lion kill is NOT,
Lions bury the kills after every meal,,,,,,They never leave them exposed like that.
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