fng....that needs advise or help finding a buck i hit
2002duramax
8/30/11 10:57am
new to this site and need help? names josh ......shot a buck sunday night the 28th at 7:45 pm i gave him 30-40 min before going after him it was a 75 yards shot .i am not sure where it was hit but i can tell you he did bleed alot the blood was a very dark red so i am assuming i hit the liver never found my aarow trailed him 400+ yards then the weather took a bad turn and started raining pretty hard i pulled out of the area and came back the next day at first light .luck would have it the rain washed all the blood away we were able to find a couple of tiny spots of blood but no deer ..right after the shot his head droped and he walked slowly down hill to some oak brush and up a side hill that was not steep at all from there he never went up hill he walked the side of the mountain me and a few of my buddys have coverd the area pretty well and have came up empty handed........im really sick to my stomic over this he would fall in the 165-175 class rang 27-29 wide 4by4 with a drop tine on his right side any advise or ideas would be nice ..but i think ill have to wait for birds and dogs to find him to recover him (???)
24,895
Read this...(may help, may not) but it's a good read.
If he didn't want to go uphill, he could be pretty sick and mortally wounded. Having no clue where you hit him, he'll lay down sooner than later if hit bad/hard. And sometimes they will go into the THICKEST/NASTIEST stuff they can for cover and to get away. Sometimes they will head for water also.
That's tough situation with the rain, best of luck but I wouldn't give up yet IMO.
I HAVE to ask though, and I am not asking this to start an internet arguement, but what were you doing taking a 75 yard shot? I know seasoned vets that would never take a shot that long with archery equipment and they can shoot better than anyone I know. You stated yourself that you were new to this. Was it just bad judgement? I can live with that as long as the lesson was learned. There are just too many bad things that can happen in 75 yards (jumping the string, wind gust, unseen branch or twig, etc)
Not trying to flame ya bud, I just think that taking a 75 yard shot, especially if you are new to this, was not a wise choice.
mistakes are fine if they are learned from, but if you just turn around and do it again, that would be horrible.
Two years ago I had a buck jump the string at 37 yards and the arrow hit him in the neck. I looked for this buck for a week even though the shot was not a fatal shot. I found lots of dead animals but not my buck. Last year I saw him in his favorite spot with his favorite 3-point buddy from 600 yards. He also saw me and I watched him slink into the woods and never saw him the rest of the season. He was a much more cautious buck and watched me and all of his surroundings very carefully until he got into the trees. The point is, I felt comfortable shooting out to 70 yards but as stated above too many things can happen in the time span between a shot that far as my story indicates in just 37 yards.
Anyways, I wish you luck in finding your buck and if you do find it I look forward to seeing pictures of it on here. fatrooster.
These extreme range shooting practices will be the demise of archery only seasons in the future, I'm afraid. I'll only ask you this......do you think at 40 yards (shot) you'd have a recovered deer (honestly)? I'm sorry you didn't recover your deer, it happens........but it happens more often at longer ranges, IMO.
If you are comfortable with the shot and know you can make an ethical kill, take the shot. I'm not going to try and counsel you on what you're effective range should be. 2002duramax, just do everything you can to find him and you've got my respect. It would be far easier to give up and quit looking. Good luck.
If you had to bet your life on one cold shot, would you rather have to make a 200 yard shot with a rifle or a 1000 yard shot?
For the record, I feel bad for the original poster......NOBODY likes to lose an animal and it happens with all weapon styles to all who hunt for very long.......and I sure hope he finds it. Heck, if I lived closer, I'd give him a hand looking for it. However, there are things we as sportsmen can do to limit wounding animals, and extreme range shooting is one of them, IMO.
I DO feel bad for the guy and I hope he finds the buck. I've been hunting over 30 years and have lost two animals in my life...and to this day I relive those moments in my head. Yes, after all of these years it still bothers me. I hope that the hunter learns a valuable lesson and remembers this next time a shot is being contimplated. I too would be more than happy to help in the search if I were within driving distance.
I was very careful to point out that I was not posting my thoughts in order to start an internet arguement or to flame him and I apologize if it's come across that way. However, I believe that a shot at that distance with archery equipment is unethical and I voiced my concern, just as I feel that these folks you see and hear about nowadays taking 800+ yard shots with high powered rifles are also unethical in their methods. These are just my opinions.
If there's one thing I ask...don't compound the mistake by giving up on the search. At the very least, give it all you got to recover the animal.
this tells me the o.p has learned nothing, thinks taking that shot was just fine, and oh- well, chit happens.
well i'm tired of the internet crap that says" we must unit" so we can be stronger as a group against the anti's-- screw that! i dont have to "unit" with people who are so carelessly trying to take away a sport i love. ignorance or not, this kinda stuff IS whats going wrong with are sport and the reason we fight anti's so much.
and for the record-- had it ended absolutly perfectly, and someone was standing behing a great buck that they had shot at 75 yrds, i simply wouldn't comment. you wont hear a "congrats", "good job" etc... from me- theres nothing impressive at all about that. :>/
I think this is very thin ice.
Just my opinion but we each have to make our own decisions when it comes to hunting I doubt that we will all ever agree on the meaning of "ethical" or "unethical" when applied to hunting. That is for each of us to decide for ourselves.
I'm primarily a rifle hunter and this is in no way a rant against archers. A well placed arrow will kill an animal as fast or faster than a bullet. That being said, there are far more limitations with archery equipment and that has to be accounted for. I agree, most guys shooting 400+ yards with their rifles are expanding the risk of a bad hit beyond what is acceptable and I really dislike the idea of shooting beyond 500...just because the gun can do it doesn't mean I can.
I hope he finds the deer. I hope that he feels sick enough about this that he'll evaluate the situation and reconsider taking shots at that distance in the future. I know some very committed archery hunters and most of them refuse to shoot at an animal beyond 40 yards.
Any updates at all?
I don't believe that long range bow hunting will be the demise of our sport. A 100yd bow shot is still primitive when compared to a 1000yd rifle shot, and both are executed by a very small percentage of hunters.
Hope you find your buck...
I have to disagree with you that long range (extreme) archery shooting at animals does not have an impact on archery only seasons. Do you sit on any state or national archery boards? I sit on both......and I can't tell you how many times this has been brought up by F&G officials. There are many examples, but the most recent was the loss of a Tule Elk area in CA based on two elk that were wounded at ranges of 80+ yards.....one in the neck and one in the rear. This area just happens to be visible by general public (public land) and negative feedback was generated. The "archers" boasted how they usually make those shots and often shoot out to 110 yards!
Now, I explained to officials that this could happen at 20 yards with ANY type of weapon. However, they didn't want to hear it. They simply explained that archery was suppose to be a close range sport and perhaps they should be lumped in with the firearm season. THAT my friend is scary. Remember thier perception IS reality since they create the seasons. As a result, we lost the area. There are also a few states that have limited archery units to longbow/recurve ONLY based on the distance compound shooters are attempting. (Oregon, Oklahoma to name a few)
Now, I generally don't comment on extreme range shooting since I don't usually know the shooter or his/her capabilities......but not anymore, as it is now jeopardizing my archery only season. Mark my word, more restrictions on equipment and seasons are coming if we continue down this path......especially when they document it on media portals. (TV, forums, magazines, etc.) If you shoot that and wound an animal......why bring it attention to it? Of course this is just my opinion, which isn't much, but I've been bending strings at critters for over 35 years........and I'd like to continue to do so.
Here are a few quick examples of general attitudes if a deer shows up in town with an arrow stuck in it somewhere. Non hunters are generally pretty accepting of what we do as long as they don't see it. Public opinion can change very rapidly when they see an animal with an arrow sticking out of it somewhere. If you don't think that puts out sport at risk you have your head in the sand. I don't know what distances any of theses deer were shot at, but the point is this...at what distance does the risk of making a bad shot become too great to take.
It makes no difference what tool you use to hunt...what is important is that we take great care, both for the sake of the animal and our hunting heritage, to ensure that the risk of a poor shot is minimized. Part of that is off season practice and familiarity with our weapon. Another significant part of that is making ethical decisions in regard to the distance we shoot as well as all the other factors that play into quickly and cleanly taking an animal. I agree that it is better to work on our ability to close the distance on an animal than it is to work on our ability to take them at longer distances. If I mess up a stock, the worst that happens is the animal busts me and heads 3 or 4 mountains over. If I screw up a long distance shot, I may wound an animal that I am never able to recover.
I've seen a guy kill a deer running at 300+ yards, elk killed at 700+ yards, and animals shot behind the ear. I've also seen legs shot off, animals shot in the guts/hind quarters, and jaws shot off because unnecessary risks were taken.
Accidents can happen at any distance, but the risk can be significantly reduced by shortening the distances we are willing to attempt a shot at.
why should i except someone's horrible choices, when end the end, all they are doing is slowly taking away MY archery hunting?
call it selfish if you want to, to each their own, but dont try and convince me i should "unite" with a group of people that have no respect for the sport of archery or the animals we hunt.--- FYI- it does NOT make us stronger- what it does do is make us have to fight harder to keep are sport :-k
everyone has an opinion, particularly the observer that doesnt participate in the sport (springville). i remember compound shooters telling me that my 60# recurve shooting 650 gn arrows tipped with razor sharp coc broadheads was unethical. Apparently, you need to have a compound bow shoot 300gn arrows with expandables 310fps to be an ethical bow hunter (according to them).
it's a good thing that i hunt for myself and by myself. i make my own decisions and live with them, but with any luck you guys (especially the guy that doesn't bow hunt) will tell me what an acceptable/ legal/ ethical shoot is.
what wrong with just getting close?
i agree with SPRINGVILLE- people see ARCHERY as a CLOSE RANGE SPORT-- as soon as you make it something different than that we will slowly lose are liberal dates.
i look at it this way: i have 1 month to get within 40 yrds of a bull, if i only needed to get within 60 yrds then i only need 2 weeks, at the most! i get within 60 yrds of a buck or bull more times than not when i go out, i dont need 30 days to do that.
so heck, lets make are seasons only 2 weeks. now the guys who couldn't get within 60 in the month will now shoot 80- heck if i only need to get within 80 yrds, lets cut are season to 1 week? then the guys who cant get within 80 yrds of an elk in a week will shoot 100. well heck, if i only need to get within 100 yrds, lets cut are season to 3 days? if you cant get within 100 yrds in 3 days your pretty hopeless
all sarcasm aside- for the guys who are shooting these rediculous ranges- you are really missing out on the BEST PART OF BOW HUNTING! there is nothing cooler than being 20 yrds from a buck/bull and they dont even know your there. I recomend trying it
PS- Just for the record, I BOWHUNTED California for over 15 years in a zone where you could kill two deer and if memory serves me right, I managed 12 blacktail deer and a couple of mulies. I also took several wild pigs and a couple of turkys. My Equipment included a Hoyt Gamegetter III, a Super Slam, and a 36lb handmade recurve with which I took my last deer in 2008. I also worked at The Bow Rack in Redding CA. during highschool cutting arrows, fletching arrows, assembling, and paper-tuning bows. Sounds like alot of experience for a guy who shouldn't have an opinion because he's not a bowhunter. So stick that on the end of one of your arrows and fling it at some deer 80yards away, and lose another arrow nofuture!
The above quote is from an interview with Chuck Adams. He left Howard Hill who routinely took animals at long range (100+ yds) with his longbows. Its ironic that the founders of our sport had to fight to make the public understand that the bow and arrow was a legitimate hunting tool, and now we are fighting with each other because bows have become so efficient and the ranges that some hunters shoot has not even been extended. Please explain to me how the above hunters need to learn what bowhunting is really about?
Personally 40yds is my limit when i am hunting because i like them to go down in sight. My beef is when other people believe that their opinion is the only/right one, and therefore everyone should adhere to their guidelines. I also know that people like that will never change their mind, so this is the last post i will make on the subject. Fire away...
Did early bowhunting figures shoot long distance (for a recurve/longbow).....they sure did.......don't know if they knew any better. :) What smiling Chuck fails to mention is those same individuals also used poison pods on their arrows. So, if they wounded an animal, let's say in the foot, it would die. In other words they had a chemical to make up for their lack of accuracy at longer distances. Poison pods are no longer legal, or acceptable by the norm, as our society has changed its viewpoint on deploying them......this is relativism at it's finest. You should fully understand relativism and how it affects society and laws before you render an opinion. Here's an example. In the 1800's a US citizen (man) could legally take a 14 year old female for his wife (which is still acceptable in other countries)......try doing that today in our society and tell me where that will get you. Why? Because our society has changed it's moral viewpoint on the matter.
The same thing is occurring with extreme range archery shooting and viewpoints of game officials and non-hunting folks alike. Whether I agree with it or not (which I don't) is irrelevant. We must understand their perception is their reality.....and they hold the cards to our seasons. Therefore, we need to do whatever we can to maintain our political status and control of our own hunting seasons without further restrictions. Societies viewpoint is changing folks. Again, if those shooting these extreme distances decide to continue , why broadcast it on a forum or on cable television? If you lose an animal (not wound but lose), why broadcast it for the public. You hunt long enough, it's going to happen. F&G officials and hunters understand that. But, you have to admit, the amount of posts that are strictly about losing animals are far more frequent these days.
I agree with you though, nofuture, each bowhunter's maximum effective range is up to them. No one should/could make a magical number up that will cover any/all bowhunters. But, I will challenge ANY bowhunter in this country that if they had one shot that their life depended on, would they prefer to take it at, let's say 40 yards versus 80 yards. Which distance would you think they'd take? I think they'd choose 40 yards. Why should it be different when it's the animals life we're dealing with?
SS:
The Bow Rack, eh? How is ol' Cliff Dewell?
Postby Springville Shooter » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:17 pm
I have heard this argument about long-range before and I do agree. But, I don't feel that this is a problem that is unique to the long game. I feel that a large percentage of ALL types of hunters are simply not prepared and practiced enough to take the shots that they take. Bowhunters, Muzzy guys, and regular medium-range rifle guys are all guilty as groups. Here is another thing that I want you to think about; most people who put down the long range game say nothing about taking 100-200 yard offhand shots at moving game. I will GUARANTEE you that I can take a much more ethical shot at 400-600 yards than thisRe: Closest Kill
Re: Closest Kill
Postby Springville Shooter » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:38 am
The danger that we get into is when we try to impose what is "fun" for us onto other people. What happened to "variety is the spice"?
I think you are confused. nice way to take a head shot at longrange, you missed blowing the jaw off by 2". I also think that the non hunting public is very impressed with "hunters" exploding pd's for fun...
Re: Closest Kill
Postby killerbee » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:44 pm
and just for the record, i posted a stroy of my awsome year of hunting, only 1 with me being the shooter, but the bull my buddy killed was shot 3 times at 658-668 yrds.( from the first to the 3rd shot) by no means am i anti long range shooters! hmmmm
let me say it again for you- ARCHERY IS A CLOSE RANGE SPORT
i'm not anti longe range rifle shooters( i will say there are FAR to many guys doing it that shouldn't be, and if you do a search you'll be able to quote me on that as well)
i believe we are talking ARCHERY, or did i miss something?
Personally, I lost the first two bucks that I shot (one rifle - 150 yard shot, one archery - 15 yard shot). I was a teenager each time and to say that I learned a lot from each instance is an understatement. Each of the last two muzzleloader seasons, half a second before I pulled the trigger the last thoughts in my mind were, "What if?" Then my heart sank into my toes and I pulled the trigger. Greatfully both bucks dropped instantly, so perhaps you could say that I'm regaining some confidence.
Also, because of this thread I spent several hours at the range yesterday with my muzzleloader, something that I otherwise may not have done and just trusted that nothing had changed from last year. Nothing had changed luckily and although I know I can put 5 of 6 shots at 200 yards into a 6" circle... ethically and for the sake of the animal I would really struggle with anything longer than probably 135 yards, I'd rather close the gap to 100 yards or even closer. Now in Utah a muzzleloader must have open sights or a non-magnifying scope, this is one of the ways that Utah DWR has decided to limit muzzleloaders and long range wounding shots that could result as a byproduct of the false confidence of "cranking up the power on my scope." It's a good thing, I'm glad the State has that regulation. A+, +1. Being close to these great animals is a priceless experience. I've been sneezed on by a doe, and nearly trampled by a bull moose... but from those "close encounters" comes the knowledge of big game behavior that will someday hopefully lead to a notched tag zip tied around some hefty antlers in the years to come... assuming we're still granted the privilege to do so.
I'm guilty too. I shot a beautiful 4x4 muley in Colorado this year. He was on a dead sprint at 75 yds. I double lunged him, but until I found the blood trail I thought I had missed. I'm ecstatic that I got him, but I still regret taking the shot. At the speed he was going, it was a poor shot that could have easily ended with a wounded animal. It was a lesson learned, thankfully without letting an animal get away.
Hope you're able to track him down.
I appreciate you posting some of my old opinions on this thread, I believe that they fit in well with what we have discussed and further prove my points, both originally and now that, first, I maintain that to each their own, and second that I CHOOSE for myself different activities/practices to pursue or avoid. It is the purpose of this forum to express our opinions.......with experiences for others to benefit from. Thank goodness that our opinions vary or this would be a very boring place. For the sake of understanding...... I don't proclaim that there are any hard line ranges where shots become too far, either with a rifle, or a bow. I know my OWN limits with both and my OWN opinions on what defines a short range weapon special hunt where certain types of weapons are restricted because of their ability to kill game at further ranges. Here's the bottom line.... I will never tell you what too far is for you, I will only state my opinions as they pertain to my own choices and how I think different things affect the future of all outdoor sports. In the end, I don't think that we disagree as much as you think we do. And as for your judgements on my shots and shooting prarie dogs, I appreciate your opinion and I hope that you will abstain from these activities yourself. What you don't know is that with my equipment and practice, I could repeat that head shot in those conditions at twice that distance any time, any day. I know because I do it all the time. In fact, my effective range on paper is about 400 yards further than I would ever shoot at an animal. Thats why I don't let insults from guys like you bother me. Anyway, hope this gives you a better understanding about what I meant. So, hike, fling, and be happy. Just a note to all those who have tender feelings, don't post it on here when you wound an animal with an 80 yard shot if you don't want to hear someones opinion about it. -------SS
"I also know that people like that will never change their mind, so this is the last post i will make on the subject. Fire away..."
Are you sure?.........
Good luck :thumb
Sorry you did not find what you were looking for here. In fairness to this forum, you were treated far better here than you would have been had you made that post on the other two forums I spend time on. Most guys offered what help they could and respectfully suggested ways this particular situation could have been handled that may have reduced the liklihood of a lost animal. Nobody, to my knowledge, resorted to name calling or disparaging remarks directed at you, but you did not respond in kind. If you wish to participate in a public forum, maybe you ought to consider checking your pride at the door. You may just find that there is a wealth of experience here and some very valuable insights that may help you to be a better sportsman...I know I have. We all make mistakes, it's what we take away from those mistakes that shapes our character.
I too am sorry you didn't find what you wanted with this forum. I'm not sure though exactly what you were expecting to find. I thought there was plenty of support offered and everyone who commented was pulling for you to find that buck. It's a public forum, there are plenty of opinions, and we have to be open to them. Calling people out and criticizing them isn't really a way to win over friends.