HOW FAR IS TO FAR??

I HAVE MY BOW SET UP WITH PINS THAT GO 20,50,60,70,80,90,100 I HAVE KILLED DEER OUT TO 73 WITH NO PROBLEM ARROW DID A COMPLETE PASS THREW AND THATS AFTER GOING THREW BOTH SHOULDERS!!!! I WAS WONDERING HOW FAR YOU GUYS WOULD SHOOT A DEER WITH A BOW AND BE CONFIDENT THAT YOU WOULD RETRIEVE IT? I WILL TO 100 BUT I THINK ANY FARTHER IS PUSHING IT!!! LETS HERE WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE TO SAY?????????
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killerbee
i believe randy ulmer wrote an article saying how he never takes a shot on an animal past 50 yrds obviously since how he known for being one of , if not the best archery shooters in the world, it's not because he cant shoot farther it was because of the time it takes the arrow to get where it is heading and how much the animal can move. i practise out to 80 yrds all the time but i would look like a complete fool to try and tell everyone that i was a better shot then Randy Ulmer is. for this reason i also would look like a fool to say i would shoot farther than he would :-k :-k
my limit 50 yrds, and under no conditions would i ever believe that some one is 100% of making shot farther than that 100% of the time------ just my bull headed opinion i guess???????????????????
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Heads or Tails
'bee you touched on some very good points. I hear guys quite often explain confidently that they can shoot at longer yardages using the "I can" statement. At times it reminds me of when I was younger and we had rock skipping or throwing contests.
As ‘bee mentioned with Randy Ulmer, I believe there is probably a fair number of us shooters here that are able to or do shoot at longer yardages (70-100 yds), however shooting at a target butt or a Styrofoam 3-D animal target is a whole different story than shooting at an animal in the field that we are intending to harvest ethically. As mentioned, there is a lot of time lapse between release and arrow placement contact. There are simply too many variables that can come into play even for the most seasoned shooter such as: wind, angle, terrain, yardage, wind-at a longer yardage the wind may very well be blowing slightly where the animal is and not where you are, and yes-good ol’ buck fever, etc… Even the newer 300+ fps bows cannot over come all of those variables. Unless you are one of the few that may have some type of NOS pack implanted into your arrow and you can kick it in as it gets closer to your target. If so, please let me know where I could buy some. :)
It almost makes my skin crawl to listen to someone brag about the “big” buck that they “hit” but never found, I see know pride in non-retrieval. To each his own opinion, but I would much rather see a nice big buck and not get him then throw a “hell-mary” and stick him bad just wounding him or leaving him to rot for the birds and coyotes to fight over. I either want him on my wall or running in the hills--not limping in the hills.
A lot of deer get wounded every year due to hunters throwing “hell-mary’s” and praying they hit the deer.
I am definitely not saying that these shots can’t be made, but in order to make them ethically or smartly conditions need to be very pristine or borderline perfect. There will always be somebody out there with the “big-fish story” of an amazing arrow performance at some miraculous range. Hopefully we are smart enough to consider logical hunting commonsense rather than the bragging rights of a “rock throwing contest”.
After all this is just my ($$)

Remember to aim straight and……..stay calm and pick a spot!
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killerbee
great points, there is absolutly no question that the modern bows can make a good kill when a perfect hit occurs at 80 yrd, but the odds of that perfect hit are just not as high. i have a buddy/ for lack of a better name/ that when he was about 17 or so killed a buck at 97 yrds, rediculous in the first place, but that one good shot has ruined him he has wounded his fair share now because he will gladly let er' fly at 120+ last year in utah he was telling me how he couldn't get closer to this bull and he was just mad cus he been after him all morning that he let one rip at 150 yrds! thats not even bow hunting! then he was impressed at how he BARELY shot over he back ](*,) :dumb ](*,) :dumb he is a crack shot on the range but it's not the same out in the woods.
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Show_Me_Your_Rack
Good points both of you :thumb yes when i stated bow hunting i was the first in my family to and when i saked my dad how to do it he said its just like a rifle just you have a bow in hand!!! so i was flinging these shots out to 150 and once my aarow skipped 3 times then almost hit the buck :-k but as the years go on i get a little smarter i have wounded 2 deer in my life and thats not something that i am proud of at all one was at 7 yards and the other was at 56!!! I also agree i want it on the wall or out in the field untouched [-o< [-o< [-o< lets keep it up and shoot strait and true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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a_bow_nut
Show_Me_Your_Rack,

I think that you kinda of hit the nail on the head. I think that to decide what is to far depends upon the situation. At times you may be able to shoot out to 40 or 50 yards with no problems. At other times 20 yards may be to far depending on thickness of brush or weather conditions. This is why it makes me reluctant to say what is to far because it changes for every shot.
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a3dhunter
One point that I consider is what animal I am hunting. I will shoot to 60 yards on elk, but only 50 on deer. That is based on a quiet animal who doesn't know I am there and is relaxed. I think the behavior of the animal needs to be considered as well. Deer are also more likely to jump the string or any animal that is moving, just not wise shots when shooting longer yardages.
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southwind
I'm kind of with 3dhunter on this I would shoot 60 at an elk if conditions were right and mostly I would max out at around 40 on deer but I would consider a 50 yard shot if everything was right.

I too will practice at longer distances but that is a lot different than what I would do on a game animal. These are my self imposed limits not my limitations.
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Default Avatar
Take the species vital size and divide it in half. Now what yardage can you hit that circle consistantly.

Thats what i use for normal conditions. I reduce it of course in high winds or extreme angles.
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a3dhunter
"Thunder Head" wrote:Take the species vital size and divide it in half. Now what yardage can you hit that circle consistantly.

Thats what i use for normal conditions. I reduce it of course in high winds or extreme angles.
After reading this, I agree. That is what accuracy I achieve at the known distances I mentioned above.
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Default Avatar
Isn't the point of bow hunting to get in close???? :-k To sneak within spittin' distance, to see the snot runnin' out of their nose as the bugle rattles your ear drums, etc. Over 50 yards ain't close! Might as well shoot it with a rifle!
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BOHNTR
An archer sees how far away he can get and still hit his target........a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he kills his target. :arrow
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killerbee
"catdogs" wrote:Isn't the point of bow hunting to get in close???? :-k To sneak within spittin' distance, to see the snot runnin' out of their nose as the bugle rattles your ear drums, etc. Over 50 yards ain't close! Might as well shoot it with a rifle!
An archer sees how far away he can get and still hit his target........a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he kills his target.
CATDOGS AND BOHNTR
exactly!! i think if someone told me they killed a 400 " bull or a 200" buck and then said they shot it at 90+ yrds i would not even for a bit think they did anything special. i can't count how many times i've been 70+ yrds to animals that would be my biggest still to date and never crossed my mind to shoot. thats not what it's all about.
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Mark
"Show_Me_Your_Rack" wrote:I HAVE MY BOW SET UP WITH PINS THAT GO 20,50,60,70,80,90,100 I HAVE KILLED DEER OUT TO 73 WITH NO PROBLEM ARROW DID A COMPLETE PASS THREW AND THATS AFTER GOING THREW BOTH SHOULDERS!!!! I WAS WONDERING HOW FAR YOU GUYS WOULD SHOOT A DEER WITH A BOW AND BE CONFIDENT THAT YOU WOULD RETRIEVE IT? I WILL TO 100 BUT I THINK ANY FARTHER IS PUSHING IT!!! LETS HERE WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE TO SAY?????????
How far is too far? 100 yards in my opinion. A lot can go wrong at that distance.

How far would I shoot? A lot less than 100 yards.

Get close.

You need to experience an elk screaming in your face at 50 FEET.

You need to experience a deer so close you can smell him.

You need to experience an antelope so close to you that you can see his eyelashes.

That's what bowhunting is to me.
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Show_Me_Your_Rack
mark jones i also think thats what it is about!!! I have experienced all of those except for the eyelashes!!! i have had a deer come up and nudged me with its head while i was sitting a groung blind!!! the areas that i hunt are really open and sometimes you cant get within 100 yards and if your luck you can get within 80 so thats the case down here in the desert!!!


http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/Show_Me_Your_Rack/0708072030.jpg" alt="" /> this is my 130 yard group and that is pushing it big time i know but with these day bows i bet it wont be long untill people will be killing animals at 150 yards!!!!
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killerbee
IF THAT TARGET WAS A DEER BROADSIDE AND FACEING LEFT YOU HAVE A COUPLE ARROWS RIGHT CLOSE TO GUTS, WITH A VERY TINY WIND THOSE ARE ALL WOUNDED BUCKS, AND JUDGING BY YOU PICS AND SHEDS UNFORTUNATLY THEY ARE ALL PRETTY BIG ONES. I PERSONNALY DONT THINK THEIR IS A PERSON ALIVE WHO CAN HONESTLY SAY THEY COULD PUT A KILL SHOT ON ANY ANIMAL 90% OF THE TIME TAKING A SHOT LIKE THAT. JUST MY OPINION. oohps sorry for yelling, didn't see my cap locks ](*,)
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Show_Me_Your_Rack
Yeah i agree i am not planning on shooting at a animal past 80 i just think it is good to practice farther so that you can learn your bow and shoot better if that makes any sence????
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BOHNTR
I practice out to 80 yards all the time, as it helps my shooting skills at shorter distances.....however, out of all the deer I've arrowed over the years, I can't remember one over 53 yards...and that was in perfect conditions. Most have been arrowed between 20-40 yards.....
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Mark
"Show_Me_Your_Rack" wrote:mark jones i also think thats what it is about!!! I have experienced all of those except for the eyelashes!!! i have had a deer come up and nudged me with its head while i was sitting a groung blind!!! the areas that i hunt are really open and sometimes you cant get within 100 yards and if your luck you can get within 80 so thats the case down here in the desert!!!


http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/Show_Me_Your_Rack/0708072030.jpg" alt="" /> this is my 130 yard group and that is pushing it big time i know but with these day bows i bet it wont be long untill people will be killing animals at 150 yards!!!!
Ummm, yeah, I hunt the desert too. It's not that hard to get close. Work on your skills. And you have to make the decision not to shoot at animals that are too far. It may mean not getting the shot, but there are just too many variables at longer yardages.

Yes, todays bows shoot faster, flatter and more accurately at longer yardages, but I doubt you will ever see the vast majority of bow hunters shooting much past 50 or 60 yards. Too much can go wrong.

If you're comfy with shooting at a possible moving target from 100+ yards, have at it. It's your choice. But if I couldn't consistently get closer to an animal than the yardages you're talking about, I would just shoot a gun.

One more thing...

If I look at the trajectory of an arrow shot 390 feet away from a target, the arrows won't be sticking straight in to the target. They are not going to shoot flat at 130 yards. An arrow trajectory isn't flat from 130 yards.
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killerbee

One more thing...

If I look at the trajectory of an arrow shot 390 feet away from a target, the arrows won't be sticking straight in to the target. They are not going to shoot flat at 130 yards. An arrow trajectory isn't flat from 130 yards.
good point , didn't think of that. i would pretty much garrentee that those were not shot from 130 yds away :)) :)) [/quote]
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Show_Me_Your_Rack
from that picture they do look flat but i will promise you that they were shot from 130 yards and they are angled alot more than that looks like i will shoot some more and then i will take a side shot!!!! :nono:
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Default Avatar
TO ALL THEIR OWN! I USUALLY PRACTICE OUT TO 90 YARDS BUT RARELY HAVE THE OPPOTUNITY TO SHOOT AT AN ANIMAL AT THAT DISTANCE. DONT DOG ON PEOPLE CAUSE THEY DO SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULDN'T! REMEMBER THOUGH, YOU PLAY HOW YOU PRACTICE. GOOD LUCK TO ALL THIS UP COMING SEASON.
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killerbee
i would gladly sit in a contest of long distance shooting, i would lose some as also i would win a few. that said it is not even on the same page as hunting and i would hope that in cop training your tought that practice can never truly prepare you for real life situations!
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Mark
"bowhuntercop" wrote:TO ALL THEIR OWN! I USUALLY PRACTICE OUT TO 90 YARDS BUT RARELY HAVE THE OPPOTUNITY TO SHOOT AT AN ANIMAL AT THAT DISTANCE. DONT DOG ON PEOPLE CAUSE THEY DO SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULDN'T! REMEMBER THOUGH, YOU PLAY HOW YOU PRACTICE. GOOD LUCK TO ALL THIS UP COMING SEASON.
You're right. And I wasn't dogging on the kid. He asked the question, I answered it. In my humble opinion, the shots that he takes are TOO FAR. Should I have sugar coated it? Should I have suggested that he maybe try 175 yards?

I will say that looooonnnnngggggg shots with an arrow are very irresponsible. You can't deny that.

And with that said, I don't care how far "hunters" shoot with their bow. It's not my problem. But I might suggest that people don't post it on a public forum and then get all wadded up when they get called on it.
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Default Avatar
50 or 60 depending on the situation.
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Default Avatar
While I understand that it is a different ball game out west, it seems absolutely ridiculous to me to shoot at a deer-sized animal with a bow at 130 yards. I live near a bow shop, and the owner is a buddy of mine who travels all over the midwest and south as a competetive shooter. He can blaze any target inside 60 yards as good as anyone I have ever seen, and as good a shooter as he is, I guarantee he would never even contemplate shooting at a live animal at distances in the triple digits.

For me, if you are shooting deer at 80+ yards, your groupings at 30 yards had better be 3 arrows touching each other! As I said, bowhunting the midwest is not the same game, and I understand that. I practice to 50 yards all the time. But that being said, I have arrowed close to 20 whitetails and never had to take a shot past 25 yards. I pride myself on getting close so that there is ZERO DOUBT when I draw that the animal is going to die quickly and ethically. I don't think archery tackle is the right gear for such extreme ranges, but that's my $.02 worth.
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Mark
"creamernator" wrote:While I understand that it is a different ball game out west, it seems absolutely ridiculous to me to shoot at a deer-sized animal with a bow at 130 yards. I live near a bow shop, and the owner is a buddy of mine who travels all over the midwest and south as a competetive shooter. He can blaze any target inside 60 yards as good as anyone I have ever seen, and as good a shooter as he is, I guarantee he would never even contemplate shooting at a live animal at distances in the triple digits.

For me, if you are shooting deer at 80+ yards, your groupings at 30 yards had better be 3 arrows touching each other! As I said, bowhunting the midwest is not the same game, and I understand that. I practice to 50 yards all the time. But that being said, I have arrowed close to 20 whitetails and never had to take a shot past 25 yards. I pride myself on getting close so that there is ZERO DOUBT when I draw that the animal is going to die quickly and ethically. I don't think archery tackle is the right gear for such extreme ranges, but that's my $.02 worth.
And your opinion is worth a lot more than $.02 in this case!

Archery hunting out west isn't any different than hunting any other area. Really the only difference is the terrain. Some people use the excuse that you just can't get close out here. That's simply not true. I've never had to take a shot over 50 yards. And to some, 50 yards is a long shot.

There's no excuse to take a shot at 100+ yards. If you can't get closer than 60 yards, buy a gun...
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Heads or Tails
Jones and Creamernator, You both have spoken wise words (words worthy of an invitation into ones hunting camp).
I am starting to get the feeling this post was meant to turn into a "spittin' contest" to say "look what I can do" or a glorified "show and tell". That is cool that a man can shoot far, as a few of us have mentioned we do "practicing". However, when we step in the realm of hunting situations even the best shooter is never sworn to an ethical or clean shot at a long range.
I have grown up in the west all of my life and been envolved in my share of mulies being harvested. IMO if you can't break that 50-60 yard barrier-try harder, get closer or don't shoot.
As mentioned previously, if the yellow jacket target would have been a deer-there is a good chance it would have been a far back liver or possibly a "green arrow" hit. Both have low retrieval rates.
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Kerwin
This is the classic debate. Do you want to be a shooter or a hunter.

Yes hunting out west is a lot dif than here in MO. And Yes I do use equipment that limits my shot range. But for my $0.02 20 yards is a long shot. My avg shot is about 12 yards. The Mule deer and Elk I have takin out west were at about 15 yards.

Long yardage scares me, that animal can react a lot in the time the arrow takes to get there. Perfect shot turns into a bad shot with one step of the animal.

This is one of those arguments that will some day come back to bite us in the b---.

All I ask is that before you drop that string be 100% sure you can make a clean kill, no matter what the yardage is. Everyone needs to know their limitations. Mine is 20 yards I love 10 yards. And yes I don't kill as many animals as others but...
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Default Avatar
topics like this are exacly what the anti-hunters use to try to take our right to hunt away. everyone has their own opinions on certian topics like this one, thats fine. I personally feel that people who boast on taking shots at game with a bow up to and exeeding 100 yards need to take a hunter saftey program again. the wrong people hear those comments and we as hunters are refered to as slobs. Im not saying these shots are not out of the question. just watch what you are saying around the crowd. we dont need to give the wrong people more ammo against us. Im not knocking ya. keep on shooting
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MTQUIVER
My personal limit is set at 80 yards in the right conditions. I know a lot of the old school guys will say that is to far but let me tell you something; the same things that can go wrong at 80 yards can go wrong at 20 yards. For example I thought one of the better arguements on this post said that a deer can have more time to react at long range and I agree with that... HOWEVER last year I had a buck at 29 yards and he ducked a fast shooting bowstring on video. After playing it back his back must have dropped 10-12 inches and with it being a downhill shot I missed the top of his back by about an inch. You hear my bowstring go off and the deer hasn't moved and then by the time the arrow arrives he has dropped nearly a foot. On the same hunt I shot a buck at 72 yards on video that was relaxed and feeding. I don't think he heard my bow at all and he never flinched until the arrow entered right behind his front shoulder. The deer was dead within minutes and only ran about 75 yards. I agree that any good bowhunter should strive to get as close as possible but I also believe if the right opportunity presents itself and you have been dedicated to practicing your shooting at longer ranges you are a fool not to take the opportunity. Especially in the west on mule deer because good opportunities don't come around very often especially hunting high country on public land. Just my $.02

P.S. The only mule deer I have ever hit and not recovered was at 22 yards.
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Default Avatar
"the same things that can go wrong at 80 yards can go wrong at 20 yards"

That is a very accurate statement, but you also have to figure in that any mistake or error in your shot that is minor and maybe even meaningless at 20 yards is monumental at 80. A lung/liver hit turns into a paunch hit. A paunch hit turns into hind quarters. Distance, especially extreme distance, compounds mistakes. It's bad enough on targets, but throw in the adrenaline rush of a hunt, and it makes a tough shot even tougher.
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