I now understand the need for an ethics course.

I was talking to a guy that has been an avid shed hunter for about fifteen years. He has mapped out some absolute honey holes around the state. He is very private about his collection but did let me see it. He has the three, four, half of six, and seven year old sets from a buck that is 39" wide. He has some sides that would go over 40'", countless 180-190" several 200"+, and some of the coolest atypical sheds you can imagine.

He was recently out on the Henries and said that there were over three hundred camps of guys out shed hunting. He witnessed numerous guys that were four wheeling and motorcycling through the sage brush brouse areas. He counted eight separate ultralites buzzing around. One of the utlralite pilots was chasing a 240" buck that had not yet dropped. He didn't know which camp each of the offenders came from but will take a cmaera for license plate photos and infraction photos the next time out.

Earlier this year, when I read the posts about the proposed shed ethics course I thought it was just the DWR going overboard again. After talking to this shed hunter, I understand the need. He commented how unfortunate is is for a guy like me that is just starting out. It used to be that he could go a whole season and never encounter another person looking for sheds. Now he is just glad that he has such an awesome collection becuase he is very worried about the future of shed hunting in Utah.

I hope everyone can avoid the unethical practices so that shed hunting doesn't require even more regulation.
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AntlersOutWest
I agree with you,
Last year when the DWR changed the Northern Unit to a closed shed hunting unit for certain dates I had mixed feelings about the change. The guys who are out there chasing deer down until they drop and pushing them out of their winter range to snag the shed before anyone else is supposed to be out there are the ones ruining it for the rest of us law abiding shed hunters. It eerks me to see them out harassing the animals and the fish and game not doing anything about it.
This year there was a lot of flack about the course you had to complete. Personally I had all intentions of completing the course as as soon as it was available. And passed the first try. The majority of the test was common sense and I felt it was a good eye opener for other people that didn’t know a lot the ethics. I really didn’t think it was all that big of a deal to take and hope that this kept some of the unlawful people to step back and hopefully save the herds from the hard winters.
Unfortunately it sounds like there is a lot of harassing out there that the DWR is not aware of. I hope they catch them and serve justice..
I was wondering if the DWR will starting charging a fee next year to shed hunt.
:>/
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Wow, i almost couldn't beleive when i read before that there were courses in the states to take before you could go shed hunting. And after reading this post i can see why. Sounds like there is tons of people out there. In all my years of looking for sheds in BC i think i have bumped into one other guy in the field, after looking for drops for close to 25 years. Since i moved to northern BC i have never seen anyone. Crazy. I hope some of those guys get nailed to the wall.
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I am also worried about the shed hunting in utah :-k I also went to the henries and was very disappointed only found a couple sheds and hiked probably at least 50 miles in 4 days and everywhere i went there were fourwheeler and motorcycle tracks a total dissappointment ](*,) I hope the dwr makes strickter laws on off road use something needs to be done!!!!
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I couldn't agree more. Nothing ticks me off more than hiking my tail off, only to find wheeler tracks. It's not just on the Henry's. Any part of the Pauns that is not on the Grand Staircase gets ridden to shreds.
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sneekeepete
Honestly guys and gals I don't think the state needs to create more strict laws. What they do need to do is get off their @$% and go enforce the laws that are in place. It amazes me how few forrest service and dwr folks are ever out and about. You would think that since they put in place an ethics course and other laws like ATV's on trails only that they would be out enforcing them but they just don't do it. Of course this is just my humble opinion.
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NotEnufTags
[quote="sneekeepete"]Honestly guys and gals I don't think the state needs to create more strict laws.


My wich is that "I hope everyone can avoid the unethical practices so that shed hunting doesn't require even more regulation."

I'd rather just see ethical folks out having a good time. Don't really care to see more fish and game cops because a few of them can have a real chip on their shoulder. Just hoping that people can manage themselves and respect the outdoors. I agree with you Sneeke that it probably won't happen on its own with out a few citations being issued.
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I also hve been plunder'n bone for many years like ur friend and remember the day of no other compition and more sheds than you could carry out in one trip or 2 or 3!!! I still got some pretty sweet spots but each year the sport declines. I was a little upset at the whole idea of carring a licence or certificate or whatever at first, but every time i go out and walk my feet to blisters just to find wheeler tracks zig zag'n, horse's, and camps with out of state plates every where, i realize that it is a good thing. And the sooner the state charges for the licence the better i think it will weed out alot of the ones we dont want around and leave more room in the hils for the real bone heads like me! But for real i have wached many people do many things just for a shed either cause they are lazy or ignorant either way some of these things would make each of you sick and think'n bout hang'n up ur shed hat.
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MuleyMadness
Good video link here on exactly what your talking about...

http://www.kutv.com/content/outdoors/story/Shed-Laws/nCacIlP1okSVLT6U8o3_-A.cspx
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The Ox
"sneekeepete" wrote:Honestly guys and gals I don't think the state needs to create more strict laws. What they do need to do is get off their @$% and go enforce the laws that are in place. It amazes me how few forrest service and dwr folks are ever out and about. You would think that since they put in place an ethics course and other laws like ATV's on trails only that they would be out enforcing them but they just don't do it. Of course this is just my humble opinion.
 i Agree!! people need to police themselves! and for the ones that are not , an ethics course is not gonna help! i promise that!!!!!!! just like the anti gun people thjink that taking away gun rights will create less violence it wont! a criminal is not gonnna give up there gun because laws says he should!! all it does is hurt the law abidding people. just like a dumba$% chasing a deer down til it drops obvioulsy has no regaurds for the well being of the animals...he knows its wrong!!!!! and i guarantee isnt gonna stop doing it because he has a certificate in his pocket!!!! he will keep doing it until he faces the consequences of his action.
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NONYA
Qeustion for ya,in MT when a horn hits the ground on private iland it becomes the property of the land owner,if that is the case in Utah how can they demand you take this course before you go pick up your own property off your private land? :-k
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I'm the guy that the author is refering to and he is exactly right. I just feel sad watching what is becoming of the sport I have enjoyed for so long. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with all the new shed hunters and the huge jump in the popularity of shed hunting I just wish people would do it the right way. Some of these loosers really are on their way to killing the fun for all of us. We need to take it on ourselves to start turning these guys in!! I remember when it was not uncommon at all to go out on a sat. and pick up over 100 sheds in a single day. I did it all the time. Well those days are gone. You new shed hunters really have your work cut out for you. I hope as a group we can all get the bad apples out of the pile before the whole thing spoils. If we can do that then the new shed hunters may be able to enjoy some of what I have enjoyed for 10+ years.
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Did the rest of you go to the video link? Good call on post'n that. And we do need to keep an eye out for the bad apples when out in the hills. All of us! But i did hear thru the grapvine that there will be 2 kane county sherrifs out on patrol all over the Paunsaguant this year check'n ethics certificates and watch'n for atv's going off road. The part of the unit that is on the monument has BLM rangers that keep a good eye on the atv's and has done for the past few years. I heard of some guys last year that ended up with a $1400.00 fine and some service hours. Not much but a start for sure.

I would imagine that other areas will start doing some of the same things. Hopefully they will start on the Henrys after hear'n that story! The last time i went shed hunt'n there was about three years ago and i never saw another soul.

I also think they should do something to restrict all of the guys who come in from out of state. I know it sounds a little harsh but i see more out of staters than Utahns. I'm sure they have deer where they live, and probably the other side to some sweet singles i have ha ha ha. You know when their vacation time is up they head out and most of them dont make it back to look for the other sides of the ones they found hours before they left.
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NONYA
YHE andmaybe we should keep all u utah guys from hunting here...get real
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AGCHAWK
All, just to let you know, I deleted a few posts on this thread.

Let's keep it civil and allow folks to enjoy what they love to do. If you have an issue with them then you can PM them....or one of the moderators if you would like.

As usual, we will keep the "back and forth" to a minimum and keep this a friendly, enjoyable site for all.
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I did not say stop out of staters i just said regulate. It is fair for them to pay a higher price to enjoy our state. The money can be used for many things such as wildlife officers enforcing atv laws, ethics corses ect. I hunt mule deer almost exclusively so i have no desire to hunt in Montana, but if i did it should cost me a higher price for the extra burdin i would place on their wildlife.
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NONYA
They do pay a higher price,its not cheap to travel.I think you are just upset that you have a little compitition,you thought you had something special and now everyone is doing it.
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NONYA-
So if the deer walks onto your property, do you "own" him?
In utah, the law clearly states "Animals or their parts"....antlers are parts and we do NOT own them simply because they are on our property.
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Antlersoutwest-
I sit on the shed antler committee for the DWR and helped draft these new shed laws.
We asked to impose a $5 fee for the ethics course to help pay for it and all the new signing projects on the WMA areas, but the RAC voted it down knowing the public would be upset to have another fee added for something we have already had the freedom of enjoying for free.
So as far as a fee in the future, i don't forcast that as being an issue.
I will fight to keep it "as is" so we don't have any surprises [-o<
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AGCHAWK
Alright, alright. I was a little late on the last few.

Let's play nice guys and gals. I know it's pretty much the "off-season" for a lot of us and we are getting antsy to get back into the hills. I also realize that the continual snow seems to have folks couped up...but let's all stay civil here. :thumb

I don't know about you all but I really need to get and about again!!!! I sure can't wait for Spring!
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NONYA
"skull krazy" wrote:NONYA-
So if the deer walks onto your property, do you "own" him?
In utah, the law clearly states "Animals or their parts"....antlers are parts and we do NOT own them simply because they are on our property.
You and i have gone over this issue before....you do not reside in utah, so keep YOUR views in your own state where they are worth something. (X)
 Im MT when a critter sheds the sheds become private property on private ground, Not the animal the SHED HORN. I just wante to know what the law states in UT,I guess Ill have to ask your DWR next time Im down,I dont reside there but I like to know the laws for each state I visit.
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waynedevore
When an antler is dropped on private property whether it's public property or the property of the landowner is erelivent. I believe in all states it's illegal to trespass.
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MULIES4EVER
Actually nonya raises a good question. My father in law asked me that one also. He has property and wanted to know if the f&g expected him to take the ethics course to pick up sheds off his own property. He is older and will not be out shed hunting but if it is on his property?

I dont think f&g would care. Anybody? :-k
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I really dont know any of the answers. First off I respect private property when I am around it. Sure I have seen antlers laying out there eye balling me to pick up, very tempting but I dont. My friend talked to a BLM officer and he asked if he was shed hunting, my friend said yes, he then told him that he can pick up the antlers for free as long as he doesnt resale them in any way or form. If he was to do so he would have to purchase a mineral license to do so? As far as the private property goes, some may say when they shed and falls on their land it becomes theirs some say different. My opinion would be they are natures and since they did not grow there then they are free to any one, but then again if it is on private property then they are the land owners or who he/she lets on their property to pick up.
As far as the ethnics course goes, it doesnt really bother me it is free and took me five mintues to do. Sure it may stay this way as long as everyone abides by the regulations, laws and ethnics of shed hunting but by the way things are continueing that I have seen out shed hunting which is about every other day all over the state with fourwheeler tracks and even seeing them driving off road (but cant catch them to get evidence) then the F&G may make us purchase a shed permit or even if it gets to bad make us draw for one. This is just my five cents.
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Utah very clearly has a problem and concern for it's out of control shed hunting and the obvious damages that is is causing, this is why we have a committee set forth by the UDWR to discuss the issues and create and uphold new guidelines due to the growing issues. Wyoming just started the same thing because of the same issues and Colorado is watching our successes and or failures like a hawk because they have it coming as well.

I guess your just lucky so far that you don't have to deal with it.....again, "good on you" and your great state of Montana.

These laws are here now and the only "voice" we have is the committee and it's members of which i am proud to be a part of and carry that "voice" personally to the DWR and it's RAC members.
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Here you go, the topic we talked about


http://www.muleymadness.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3866



I am still working on the whole deal, just taking more time to work things out. I know all you that replied to me about joing and still have your information. Thakn you, we also would like the new MM members to read and consider if they would like to join. Sorry all, it is just taking alot of time to cross all the T's and dot all the I's. But I think it would help out alot and be alot of fun to be part of. If you have any questions email me and we can discuss them off line.
10sign:
Thanks
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proutdoors
While I value private property, I doubt there is another American who values it more, the deer/elk and it's antlers are property of the state. Just as even though the deer/elk is on private property, the landowner must acquire a permit before harvesting an animal.

The main point of the permit is to get ALL Utahan's to understand the impacts human activities have on wildlife during critical times of the year. It isn't about 'control', it's about HELPING THE WILDLIFE through a few EASY steps of being a little better educated which will hopefully make us ALL better stewards over the animals we love seeing/hunting.
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AGCHAWK
All right, to let everyone know, I went through and "paraphrased" the posts/discussion and tried my hardest to weed out what I felt was nothing more than arguments and pointed jabs instead of relevant conversation.

I ALMOST locked the thread completely but felt that this particular topic was too important to too many of you to simply "shut it out". I wanted to continue to facilitate the discussion and allow folks the opportunity to voice their support, list their concerns, or simply ask questions about the ins-and-outs regarding the ethics course that is now required to pick up shed antlers in the state of Utah.

I asked nicely once for folks to please stick to the subject and "play nice". Please follow MuleyMadness's forum protocal and keep it civil. If you have personal issues with another member please resolve them via PMs or contact one of the moderators.

FYI: If any of you have issues with something I removed from one of your posts...or the removal of a complete post, please let me know. Again, I tried to keep the relevant stuff in there and delete the words that simply did not apply directly to this subject. NO ONE was singled out...I went through EVERY post and made my deletions regardless of who posted. (Nor did I ADD anything to a post from another member. That would not be fair to anyone.)
If you have issues with what I did, please contact me. If you feel that PMing me will not resolve the issue, please bring it to Brett's attention.
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I have been waiting for months to post my first comment. This topic is of great intrest to me. I am part of Team WAM with wildantlerman. In my opinion the comments that have been made by proutdoors, wildantlerman and skull krazy are right on point. The simple common sense rules and regulations that the state of Utah has implemented are nothing more than a reminder to us all of the things that we need to pay attention to, in order to continue to enjoy an activity that we all love. Thank you skull krazy for all the time and effort that you have put forth to PROTECT shed hunting in the state of Utah. Individuals in other areas of the country can only hope that they will have a voice like you to ensure that their rights will be protected as well....whenever that time may come.
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I think the corse is a good thing. I also would be happy to pay for it, cause i know the money would go to make sure there is a future to shed hunt'n. Also think out-of-staters should pay a higher price and their numbers should be regulated. Just as any deer or elk hunting permit. And sales tax from fuel is not the higher price i'm talk'n bout.. :-k And thanks for the time and effort you have put forth for ALL OF US skull krazy. 10sign:
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"NONYA" wrote:They do pay a higher price,its not cheap to travel.I think you are just upset that you have a little compitition,you thought you had something special and now everyone is doing it.
 Now everyone is doing it is why we need an ethics coarse. And regulation is in our future anyway the sooner it happens the better. I would rather see it happen now and get the future of the sport off on the right track. Instead of wait'n till it has been ruined for everyone and not enjoyable like so many other outdoor and and wildlife related activities that waited to long to do somthing about the problems they face.
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I am appauled by those people that break the law and take there ATV's off roads and established trails. I to am also going to do my part in protecting our wild life and also not to metion our habitat. The less habitat, the less wildlife. This makes our land look disgusting with all the people that disrespect our lands. Everywhere I go shed hunting there are trails from wheelers, motor bikes, and in this picture I am posting,.... I dont know what it is but it is a huge machine like a snow cat or a bull dozer. This just sickens me!! Just think what the land would look like in just a few years if this continues to happen? This machine was everywhere and it just ran down anything in their way, even full grown trees. I hope everyone that also beleives this is wrong, to do your part in protecting our land and wildlife and take names, pictures, video or whatever it takes to get these people that are breaking the law to STOP!!!
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Another pic
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Another tree down!
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kinzysdad
I'm having a hard time buying a guy with a D9 is out shed hunting.
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This person in the snow cat, dozer or whatever it was, was grid lining, going across hill tops and zig zaging, miles and miles and miles of it!!!!!!!! They were shed hunting. Its common sense what they were doing.
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NONYA
SHED HUNTING ON A D4 CAT? Get real! :-k
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It does not seem likely that this machine was shed hunt'n but i was not there and am not going to say they were'nt, if he says they were griding it out then maybe? Stranger and dumber things have happened for a shed and at least he is keep'n an eye out so i would like to thank him for that.
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Maybe some drunk teenagers found the key in the ashtray while out shed hunting and decided they were tired of walk'n? (???)
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NONYA
Looks more like a survey crew of some sort,whos gonna drag a cat out in the hills and spend $100 an hour to drive it looking for sheds?
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First off I am a she not a he and my husband is a heavy machine operator supervisor and he is the one who took the pictures. He believes it was a snow cat. Wild Antlers (my brother) has also seen this damage. What I am trying to say is whatever it is, its huge and they were definetly shed hunting! This was in central Utah, and it has been reported.
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Sounds like they know that these guys were shed hunt'n for sure and i was not there and do not question their judgment, and i'm glad that you guys did what you should have and turned them in. To bad you were't there to catch them (???) I'm sorry bout the "he" "she" thing. And who knows why they used that machine to hunt sheds but they did. Sad when it's got to come to this though.
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NONYA
A snow cat doesnt leave track marks in the dirt like that,thats a tracked tractor or cat,if he is a HE oper then he would know that,nor do they knock down 20 foot shrubs.
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I don't know about Montana, but here in Utah snow cats do leave tracks like that! My husband can tell just by your statement that you don't know anything about heavy equipment or operating it. You can push down shrubs with a pick up truck let alone a snow cat.
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BIG R
Snow cat. :-k :-k Who would take a snow cat out shed hunting with no snow.
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For one thing this picture was taken on March 9th. These tracks were at least a month old. Look at the trees they are already dead. This happened during January or February while the deer were shedding and there WAS snow on the ground. Maybe they were chasing the deer with it to get them to shed and could get around in it in the snow.
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BIG R
I guess these guys figured it out finally.They took something with tracks on it and no trailer so you couldnt let the air out of the tires or take there reciever. :))
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Utahbowhunter
I also seen these tracks from this machine. I don't know anything about heavy machines so i can't tell you what it is, but i also think they could of been shed hunting. The thing went EVERYWHERE! Its kinda odd that you can go in there when very little people have been out there and you find only a couple sheds, when in previous years my brother has found a lot of sheds. Believe what you guys want Nonya and Big R, but those are our opinions. Think what you guys want and keep it to yourselves if you don't have something nice to say. Thats what this forum is for. Not to be rude to everyone and think you know it all. You never have anything nice to say Nonya and it's really irritating. This forum is meant to have good forum members. Good forum members shouldn't bash on people, they should be giving good comments, not bad ones. Now i hope you can take this advice and decide to change your attitude towards forum posts. No one here wants to be bashed on and read negative posts.
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AGCHAWK
Come on guys and gals, let's keep it confined to the subject of the thread. The last thing I want is to have to go through the thread and delete all the insults like I have in the past. Worse yet, the thread could be locked if folks continue to use it to sling mud back and forth.

The tracks are there, "we" are not sure what they are exactly or why they are there, but they have indeed scarred the land...much like an unscrupulous shed hunter would make on an ATV. Let's just leave it at that and get back to the real issues.
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NONYA
"Utahbowhunter" wrote:I also seen these tracks from this machine. I don't know anything about heavy machines so i can't tell you what it is, but i also think they could of been shed hunting. The thing went EVERYWHERE! Its kinda odd that you can go in there when very little people have been out there and you find only a couple sheds, when in previous years my brother has found a lot of sheds. Believe what you guys want Nonya and Big R, but those are our opinions. Think what you guys want and keep it to yourselves if you don't have something nice to say. Thats what this forum is for. Not to be rude to everyone and think you know it all. You never have anything nice to say Nonya and it's really irritating. This forum is meant to have good forum members. Good forum members shouldn't bash on people, they should be giving good comments, not bad ones. Now i hope you can take this advice and decide to change your attitude towards forum posts. No one here wants to be bashed on and read negative posts.
 I treat members exactly how they treat me,if you cant handle it change your attitude.I have my opinion of what made those tracks and you have another,neither one is more factual than the other,BUT Im bashing on you for having another one?Get over yourself and grow up,if you are that thin skinneD how do you make it through life?Quit acting like a 2nd grader kissing up to the teacher for brownie points,it wont get you anywhere here.
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NONYA
Bone head you are a prime example. :thumb
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Sorry about that Hawk, all I wanted to do was to voice my concern over the devestating costs the land has taken. We all have seen it and we all need to step up and take action against it before its to late. I do not want the thread to be deleted because it is a very important issue that is facing not only Utah but around the country. We dont want to wake up one day and say Uh Oh!!... Then what?... How many years does it take to regrow these area's that have been damaged?... Years!!
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I'm with you buckfeverhunter the way people are going about using our outdoors is not good for any of us, and i just want and hope that anyone that really loves being outdoors can help get the mentality of every sportsman and sportswoman to change as a whole, be it hunt'n, fish'n, hike'n, or anything else. I know that most of the people who introduced us to the outdoors did not put up with it in their day and i dont think we should today or tomorrow.
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proutdoors
Who cares what was used to do the damage? The issue is that damage was done, and why was it done. I have used snow cats several hundred times getting into remote microwave towers. They can/do leave marks in patches where there is no snow, they also can go up over trees like the pix show happened. I would like to hear what the Forest Service/BLM thinks of this.
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I am not saying that this is what the tracks are, but a few years back I was on BLM ground in southern UT and saw tracks that looked very simallar to the ones in the pics. The tracks were in an area that was very thick pinyon and juniper. I could not figure out waht they were doing in there either. Well a couple years later the whole area was clear cut and shredded, and reseeded, turned out it was a habitat improovement project the BLM was doing to create more winter range for deer. Again I am not saying that is the case in the earlier posts jsut something to consider. If it was shed hunters making the tracks shame on them.
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I live in southern Utah and have been shed hunting for the last three years. This year i have seen more four wheeler tracks then i have ever seen just because of the larger number of people that go every year. I think the ethics course is a good idea but not very affective. I have been out at least twice a week since January and have never seen any rangers or game wardens, this leads me to believe literally NO ONE is tying to enforce the law and follow through with the reasoning of having the ethics course.
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"NONYA" wrote:Bone head you are a prime example. :thumb
 (???) ?
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JUST CURIOUS....HAS ANYONE BEEN STOPPED BY THE DWR AND ASKED TO PRODUCE THIS PIECE OF PAPER FROM THE TEST WE TOOK? (???)

ALSO, DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY INSTANCES THIS YEAR THAT A SHED HUNTER WITH ALOT OF BONE WAS STOPPED BY THE DWR BUT DID NOT HAVE THE PAPER? IF SO WHAT HAPPENED?

I PERSONALLY HAVE NEVER BEEN ASKED/NOR SEEN ANYONE FROM THE DWR THIS YEAR, BUT I AM JUST INTERESTED? :-k
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NONYA
"I PERSONALLY HAVE NEVER BEEN ASKED/NOR SEEN ANYONE FROM THE DWR THIS YEAR, BUT I AM JUST INTERESTED? "

Thats 90% of the problem,if your F&G/NFR isnt out enforcing these regulations it leaves it wide open for the dips%^$s with wheelers and weak legs to go wild.Regardless of the season our guys are out there patroling and stopping to talk to people,the dont let up just because there are no hunting seasons open.
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Thats why i say that we need to police these guys ourselves, the state does a poor job enforcing cause they do not have the resorces maybe we should get a lottery? (???) or legalize pot and get taxes from that! lol lol
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