Meat or trophy hunter?

I'll be honest I've kind of turned to "big rack" fan. I rather not shoot a little deer and go home empty. I would shoot a 4-point however as I don't consider it little, although they can be obviously.

Never taken a cow elk, may do so some day for meat though. Mighty good. Taken one doe muley, but never again. We need them to produce bucks. :)

I don't know what the story is in other areas but in mine, I was told by our game biologist, a few years back, that the ratio of bucks to does is about 100 to one. Durning the breeding season, it may well be physically possible for one buck to breed that many does. But I've seldom seen one with more than 15 at a time. Rather I see a lot of either young bucks or cull bucks with small bands.

When we selectively breed animals to produce better, in theory, animals; we seldom practice inbreeding. Yet in the wild where we see ALL game go thru up and down cycles, insest runs rampant! I believe that to produce better deer we should cull out the cull bucks and a lot of does. Producing more deer does not mean bigger and better deer. With less does and better bucks the chances of does being bred by culls ond off spring goes down. Also with less competetion, the older better bucks can better run off the young and culls.

Then too I believe that the record class, the true monster bucks may not enter the breeding cycle anyway. Their the last ones out of the high country, after breeding season is over in many cases. That leaves the bucks in their prime, cull's and young, maybe inferior bucks to breed. Bring the number of breedable does to a population where prime bucks can better dominate the breeding process and quality should go up, similar to controled selective breeding.

When I was young I read a great deal about the many large antlered AND large bodied mule deer of the west. I recall reading of bucks in access of 300 pounds. When's the last time you saw one of those? Likely never! Inbreeding can at times improve blood but not indiscdimanately practiced.
We cannot control the process in the wild but thru lessening the ratio of buck to doe we can reduce the likelyhood of it.

You want better buck's, maybe we should be more selective about what we shoot and be more willing to take out excess does,,meat animals.

Don[/quote]

I have taken a few does in the past and have no problem doing so in the future. All have been whitetails and the taking of does is definitely part of the game management program. Once they are in the pot you can't taste the difference between a buck or a doe, or a bull or cow. The only reason I'm allowed to go hunting every year, without the wife, is because I've brought home meat every year. We ran low this summer and actually had to buy some hamburger. My wife about died when she saw how much it costs. In Colo, deer tags are now draw only so I don't get to hunt muleys every year. However, I have never failed to either draw or get an excess cow tag. Bulls are still over the counter for most of the state. I can count on two hands the legal bulls I've seen compared to the number of cows and I like my odds with the cows. Guess you could say I'm more of a meat hunter towards elk but like the big bucks. As a side bar, the buck I shot this year (2004) was right around 300 lbs and the one I shot last year was definitely on the high side of 300 lbs. Those are the only two I've seen or have known to be taken in the last 10 years in the area we hunt that have been that big. So maybe with CO going to the draw only for deer is turning out to be a good thing. Time will tell.

I am a head hunter when it comes to muleys, as far as elk are concerned I could take or leave them! I just enjoy getting out in the country mostly though, if i was never able to get a tag the rest of my life and only follow behind friends and family I would do it in a heartbeat, in fact this past season was the first time in about 4 years that i have had any tag in my pocket. I enjoy just being in the field helping friends and family accomplish what i have had the chance to accomplish the past ten years when it comes to bagging game.

I do not hesitate to label myself both a "Trophy" Hunter and a "Meat" hunter. I am in search of my own 200+ (gross) Mule deer. Each year when I dont get one. (and I may never) I use my tag on a tastey whitetail doe. There is an overabundance in our area and the game dept is begging us to shoot as many as six.
I do not regret passing on a 185 buck the last evening of mule deer season, (and I have) , that 185 buck just may be my 200+ buck next year.
Everyone needs to understand that a "Trophy" is just a term each hunter uses to describe a different sized animal. I have seen 140 class deer taken that in the eyes of the shooter are way more of a "Trophy" than another hunter may think about his 190 buck.
I encourage everyone to set a standard (whatever it may be) before the beggining of hunting season. Make it a point to stick to that standard until the fat lady sings. Also, put some trust in your local game departments and if their managment plan allows for the harvesting of does in your area, do not hesitate to put one in the freezer. I know too many folks who think it is against their religion to harvest a doe so they find themselves chewing on a skinny love crazed forkhorn they shot in full rut (MMMM-MMM) and dont have enough respect for the animal to put the antlers in the den so it ends up in a box (with a bunch of other fork horns) in the garage or in the trash can or in the back yard, where Fido is getting his daily calcium intake from it.
Most western states are divided into several areas allowing for the sportsman that wants what he feels is a "Quality" animal and the sportsman that really does like to put some good lean venison in the freezer and avoid the insane price of beef today. Happy hunting (and dining) everyone!

Good topic and even better replies. I guess some would call me strictly a "trophy" hunter. I like to think I'm more of a "selective" bowhunter, as a trophy to one may not be to another.

I pass a lot of bucks each year with my bow & arrow waiting for larger/mature bucks. You're not going to arrow a big one if you're dressing out small ones. But I've arrowed A LOT of good bucks in my time so it may be easier for me to pass some decent bucks. Arrowing one every year just isn't at the top of my priority list anymore.

To each his own is what I say. I really enjoy people who are tickled with taking a doe AND those that choose to hold out for a mature buck. That's what makes our passion so diverse and interesting.

Here's some photos of some bucks I passed in Arizona this past season. The first two were about 45 yards away. The others were about 65 yards. I'm just getting into using a camera instead of my bow so bare with me. Hope you enjoy.

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BOHNTR,

You basically said exactly what I was trying to say, I am a selective hunter rather than a dubbed "trophy or meat hunter". Because of my young age, and the fact that I have already accomplished what I feel many people will spend a lifetime trying to accomplish I feel like the deer gods have shined on me plenty, and now I sit back and patiently wait from year to year for the chance at a real monster. And if that opportunity never presents itself, then so be it!

Great pics BOHNTR, I must say there isn't to many fellows out there that would pass them up. I know you've seen bigger though. Is the one on the left a 3-point or is he a straight 4?

Good discussion guys!

Brett:

He's actually a 4x4. I know the photo looks like a big 3-point, but when he turned his head, you could see the other tines. He's probably in the 140's.

The top photo right buck would probably make P&Y minimum. Good tine length, just narrow. He'll be a really good buck in 2006. Just wasn't quite what I was after. Glad you guys/gals liked the photos.

I have been both in my life and now go for the horns until the last weekend(day). Shot my first buck 6 years ago at age 16 here in Cali. And since then I have taken 7 bucks. Up until last season it was all about killing a legal buck. A little forky would make me happy.

2004 season,
I set my standards higher during this season. First came achery in d-4, went up to our property 2-3 times a week and would either sit on a ground and watch a trail, spot and stalk through the brush or fall asleep in the treesatnd. I saw a fare number of bucks in the 30 yard range but never took the shot. I still haven't killed a buck with my bow but wanted one of the 4 or 5 pointers I had been seeing and knew they would not leave the ranch. Well didn't get the buck last season, hunted through rifle season on the ranch with my bow. And again could have taken some big boys with a rifle each day, but still wanted one with the bow. If I did end up shooting one on the ranch with a rifle, it wouldn't have satisfied me. I had set my goal to shoot one with a bow on our property, and did not want to make it any easier.

Rifle season on public land in 04'. Well off and on throughout the year hunted the great storms we had. This was the year I was going to bag a nice buck. I rarely see many bucks in a D zone and when I did see a legal buck, I made my first pass. Then I did the same thing 6 more times this season in D6. Well 1 week before the season eneded I saw a nice 3x4 21 inches wide and took him. I didn't get the biggest buck of the year but for me to pass up 7 legal bucks and take a nice one made my season. I will plan on passing on little bucks to find that bigger one. I always have enough venison in the freezer(dad and both brothers hunt) so I don't really meat hunt anymore.