Nosler failures
NONYA
10/11/07 10:07pm
I had two instances of bullet failure over the last week with Noslers Combined technology hunting bullets,i had one fragment on impact on my buck sunday and another on a doe Wed that completly BLEW UP on impact and did not even penetrate the shoulder blade at 100 yards.This is a pic of the ENTRANCE.
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30,967
What are you shooting?
Try the Accubond it won't do that.
I use barnes TSX on thicker skinned animals but would also work fine on goats and deer.
The CTBT and BT's can have that problem at higher velocities.
Had a hunter up in Wyoming last week the same darn thing happened to one of his doe antelope blew up on the shoulder.
I use strictly Hornady internbonds and or Barnes and swift
though the Nosler accubonds are good too.
GPWDeer
I found out eight years ago when I shot a 6X6 bull with 180 grain 300 win mag using ballistic silvertips. I hit him square in the shoulder while still hunting the black timber at 75 yards. I knocked him down out of sight and he got up and headed south and with mine and others best efforts we never recovered him. Ran out of blood within half mile but still tracked for another 2 miles before we completely lost him. That bullets went to pieces and never penetrated.
I still use them from time to time but you have to know the limitations of the bullet. Some guys like a bullets like that that come to pieces and they kill and have killed a mountain of animals. But for high velocity at short ranges you can have trouble.
I use a bonded or solid more often than not and the Accubonds, barnes tsx, swift sciroccos, interbonds etc.. are all great. I also now on any bi-metal bullets I like a jacket that is thicker at least in some areas than a thin overall jacket like on the bt's and ctbt's. To me they are more of a target or varmit designed bullet. Other than the polymer tip they are a lot like sierra match kings. And, I know guys who hunt with and swear by Match kings.
I have seen them do huge internal damage (which I also don't like) and every animal I have dressed that has been taken with them you will find pieces everywhere. I have never once seen one stay together.
They are hugely popular though.
Here is one of my examples: 80 yard shot with 270wsm 130 bt. The shot hit right behind the shoulder on other side and blew out about a 20" slash on the underside. Yes, that is not field dressing that is the effect of a bt at over 3000 fps at under 100 yards. Now, the goat was deader than a door nail but...............well just look.
Allen
I shoot the 180 grain ballistic tips out of my Mark V in 300wby and have never had a lick of trouble in 15+years of using them.
Even though i hear all these horror stories, as long as they work for me i'll continue using them. I just love how they shoot and i trust them......for now.
Working as a guide for deer & elk for all these years, you can imagine i have seen every bullt and caliber combo you can toss together for western big game.
The ONLY bullet i personally have never liked due to what i have seen time & time again is the barnes X.
We have never lost an animal with them, but i have never seen an animal drop in it's tracks after being hit....they always go a ways before tipping over, and i don't like that one bit....too much can happen. :>/
But....when i'm guiding an elk hunter, i DO like to see them hit them in FRONT of the neck, versus behind. That put's them big old dudes on the ground right now!! :thumb
bullet recovery from under the skin on the opposite side of impact.
Barnes 30 cal. 168 grain TSX with 167 grain recovery weight. Tell me how it can get any better than this.
With the technology of todays bonded or solid bullets the added margins of performance are insurance enough for me to pay for them.
After all if you paid good money for your rifle, your scope, your hunt, then why not take all the precautions you can?
If you have that 200"buck or 380" bull in your sights is it worth .50 cents more to have that extra added insurance on bullet performance?
There are a lot of good bullets out there, I like the new technology that combines accuracy with performance. That was kind of the missing link in some of the bullets of yester years. Now, as we all know "dead is dead" and that downed animal does not know the difference between a cast lead bullet and a bonded alloy polymer tip it's just that these new bullets are really good. The ballistic tip started the parade but these new generation of bullets are much much better IMO. ($$)
Nope...you can't get any better than that, that thing performed absolutely perfectly. :thumb
168grain huh? Being all copper, i'll bet the BC on that thing is through the roof because of it's length, right?
What 30 cal are ya shooting??
BC on that bullet is 404, the 165 offering in the new MRX has a BC of 439.
I have not tried any of Barnes new offering of the MRX but as it stands with the results I have had with the TSX I don't feel the need.
You will get great penetration, great controlled expansion, and super weight retention.
I'm not saying these are magic bullets and to expect the results I showed you but, it is a pretty dog gone dandy bullet IMO.
The thought of a solid copper bullet expanding into razor sharp cutting blades is a lot more comforting to me than the conventional bullets that "mushroom" when they expand.
I love accubonds
I hate barnes, mostly because of poor accuracy and the fouling (even tsx's) But I've had the noses bend over rather than the pedals opening.
impact velocity is what determines it all and the accubond may not be perfect, but it is the best compromise.
You are the first I have heard with accuracy problems from a tsx. The spitzer boat tail design is pretty inherently accurate. As far as fouling I as well as many others I know sure have not had a problem with it. my post is one example to take as that and that only. I do know that weight retention does equal greater penetration and energy transfer but that does not always matter depending on the game.
As far as accubonds I am not sure there is a better value for a bullet out there right now.
I am a Nosler fan, I switched from Siera Matchkings to Noslers match bullets for my Cross Course shooting a couple a years ago and they give up nothing.
I'm rambling....I'm out.
they look a lot the same to me!
i had the same 8 inches entrance hole last year on my antelope
but i didn't hit the shoulder, only ribs i was using corelokt ultra 180 grainers at approx 3200 fps
a month later the same bullet fragmented on a deer shoulder at 290 yards
approx 2800 fps. i was lucky enough that a small fragment made it trough
and punctured a lung :>/
i'm trying the 150 scirroccos this year, so far accuracy is better, sure hope they'll hold together better too!
they should as the jacket is a lot ticker.
Thats what I have been shooting never had a problem with them in the last to years. Well maybe the price is a little much. But I'm happy with them.
Here is a pic of another doe antelope that I hit quartering away at about the same distance and when I skinned her I found that the bullet appeared to pierce right through maybe not even expanding.
I hit my bull elk a couple of years ago on a follow-up shot at around 100 yards with a 180 scirocco. It blew his shoulder to shreds and did not penetrate the chest cavity at all. I subsequently had to shoot him behind the shoulder in the ribs at 10 feet to finish him off. Talk about a Rodeo.
Torch's dad used my gun this year on his buff with the 180 grain tsx bullets. He said that after they caped the buff, he found two bullets, one that expanded and worked as it should have and one that did not mushroom at all and was as if it was ready to reload.
One shot in the center of the chest from a 180 TSX through a .300 RUM at 40 yards as the bull was coming right into us and my neighbor had filled his LE Bull Elk Tag.
I personally will shoot the sciroccos going forward but I know I can't shoot bull elk in the shoulder at under 200 yards anymore with the sciroccos.
CS
skinner
I also shoot the 250 gr Nosler Partions in my 338, ahead of 70.0 grs of H4831,sub MOA. I shoot the 165 gr partions in my 3006.Thanks for the reply.
since then i had the oppotunity to test the 150 gr. scirrocco on 2 deer.
i had a failure on the first, the bullet fragmented on impact with the deer's shoulder. 100 yard shot.
the second bullet was recovered in the skin of the deer shot at 385 yard and while it was a perfect mushroom it was flatten back to the base of the bullet, so i guess that a shot closer like say 150 yard would have been to much.
i now started reloading the barnes TTSX , i'm sure they will hold together. and i think the polymer tip and bigger nose cavity will solve the TSX problem of not expanding reliably.
if not i'll revert to the 180 partition, i've never had any problem yet with this bullet.
if only nosler would make them with polymer tip so they look sexy. lol
Thats your OPINION of it. Not fact. I've got over 45 animals on the ground ranging from Bull Elk to Coyotes with my 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips in my 300 win mag and not a single one blew up nor did the animal run off. Sure they cause damage, but that is what I want. One shot kills, lots of damage internally for me. I've shot coyotes as close as 15 yards and the bullett went in, did its damage and exited. Drops them right there. Now on the long distance side, I put down an Elk at 450 yards and the bullett went in, damage, then out. Dropped em' right there. I will not shoot anything else in my hunting rifle than the Ballistic tips. They pack a mean punch.
Not everyone has had bad experiences with them nor will they. I don't know what happened in your case. Like I said, over 45 animals down in 20 years without any problems. That is my experince with Nosler Ballistic Tips.
I have seen them blow up on the shoulder of animals would not personally use a Nosler Ballistic tip in the big magnum cartridges on Big Game.
Now on the other hand I have had good results with the Accubond and satisfying results with the Partition. I have also had good results using the Ballistic tips on Varmints but would not use them on big game after the problems I have seen with them. The Accubonds and the Partitions however are a fine hunting bullet for big game.
How is it that some of you are 'seeing' problems with these bulletts, and others such as myself that have used them on BIG GAME for over 20 years have had NO problems what so ever. None.
Now, I reload my own. Are these factory loads? My bulletts are traveling around 3100 fps. out of a .300 win mag. What calliber are these other people shooting?
Something smells fishy and it ain't the cat.
So what exactly are you saying with this comment ? You think we are all making this up? Whats fishy to me is that you never had a issue with them ever?
I am just telling you the crappy experiences I have had with them. Now there Accubond and Partition are a very good product for big game IMO. :thumb
And as Far as ICMDEER is concerned, Jim is an outstanding outfitter who has been in the business for quite sometime he has an excellent reputation and 8 years straight of clients being 100% on 6 point bull elk AND NONE OF THEM HAD A NOSLER BT FAILURE because he does not let them use those bullets on game.
Well I took a guy Mule deer and antelope hunting he reloaded for his 7 mag with Ballistic tips and I warned him not to use them but he has been reloading for quite some time so I let it go. He loaded up some Nosler BT's and the very first antelope he shot the darn Nosler BT blew up on the shoulder and we had a antelope running around with 3 freaking legs we got it put dwon immediately with my rifle it did not look as bad as what happened to Nonya's antelope but it still was a major failure darn thing blew up on the shoulder blowing part of the leg off. :>/
Prior to this hunt I had used BT to take varmints and all different ranges and no issues but when I used them in a 300 win mag on deer the darn things blew up on impact causing some serious wounds to the deer and not a humane kill. Blew up right on the deer on impact :>/
Fine bullet for varmiting but I will not use them for big game again.
I have had no issues with the accubond and have been pretty happy with the partition.
Dont know why you have not had any problems youre lucky 4c I guess but I am only telling you my expericence with them.
We are disscussing are displeasure with the Nosler Ballistic Tip and the failures we have or have not experienced with them.
my brother for instance use 150 gr. B.T. in is 300wsm. he shot a moose and a few deer with em
and tought that huge shallow holes was a sign of good terminal performance. even if the moose took 3 shots to bring down. ](*,)
Maybe I missed something, but don't tell me the Moose was shot with a 150 grain BT. Moose have some seriously thick hide and muscle mass. I used the 200 grain's on my Moose. One shot. Down. Found the Mushroomed bullett on the exit side in the hide. 150 grains isn't enough on any big game. At least 165 grains on deer should be the minimum with BT. MY OPINION. MY .02 Cents.
I think the Failure is lying with the caliber used, bullett weight and powder charge used on which ever animal you are taking down, not the bullett alone.
Man what was I Thinking :-k
I will be sure to never use my 25-06, 257 weatherby or 270 on any big game again for now on I will be sure to only use calibers that offer at least a 165 grain bullets or larger. Good thing I already have some bigger calibers in the safe.
Shot placement is key and having a well constructed hunting bullet that performs is a must for all big game hunting such as a Hornady Interbond, Barnes TSX, Swift A-Frame, Speer Trophy bonded Bear claw ect ect... Knowing your rifles Ballistics and not taking shots beyond what your rifle is capable of is also important. A well placed shot with a 270 using a well constructed or bonded bullet is more deadly than a bad shot with 338 mag just my Opinion and ($$)
Problems with Nosler ballistic tips has been well documented. You can go to almost any hunting forum and find a thread discussing this.
Just look at the construction, now compare it with any varmint grenade type bullet and most have a similar design. It is a thin jacketed, soft core, tipped bullet. It has limitations on big game especially at higher velocities.
They are an accurate bullet and were one of the first of it's kind and a lot of hunters started and have stayed with them. They are a great seller but Nosler makes much better big game bullets.
The BT's were a first generation product and technology has advanced several generations past that design now.
--Thicker jacketed bullets
--Solid alloy copper bullets
-- bonding processes
--alloy core compositions
--yada yada yada....................
I have said you will see Barnes TSX be the new standard by which others strive to achieve in a big game bullet and it is happening. These are the type of bullets I have moved to because of great repeatable performance over a wide range of conditions and configurations. Hornady has just released their GMX bullet which is a "TSX' generation of bullet design.
There is nothing wrong with Nosler, I use many of their bullets especially their custom competition bullets.
As far as not using anything under 150 grain on big game? Well, like GWH I could not even tell you how many deer and antelope I have taken with 130 grain bullets through a 270.
It is not just the weight of the bullet but all the factors of the cartridge that makes it suitable for big game. Legions of deer and antelope have fallen to .243 and .257 class cartridges with 100 grain weighted bullets. Those kind of statements are way too broad.
If you like the Nosler Ballistic tips and have had not problems then continue to use them with confidence. But don't deny that there have been and still are problems with this bullet.
It's just limited outdated technology.