Old School Hunters Code
Lookin 4 a Big 1
9/23/09 11:28am
I am new to the site and have hunted for over thirty years. Wow, that kind of makes me feel old, even if I'm in my forties. The site has not been a disappointment and I've been surprised. The quality of hunters on this site and their willingness to help out a fellow hunter has been great. Thanks to Jeff, Dahlmer, Joe, Jason, and others; you guys are great. 10sign:
I'm getting ready to go on a Book Cliffs scouting trip. To say that these guys have been helpful to me is an understatement. In return I was able to give 2 of them some thoughts about the country that they are going to hunt this year. Info about the same country that I have hunted before. Info that I hope will fill their tag with a quality Buck.
I know that if we all take the time to pass it forward, we all will benefit. That's what being a hunter is all about. Helping each other. Some people have tried to turn this sport into an everyman for himself event. A sport where money and power rule. They are missing out on what is truly important. If it's every man for himself, then nobody would enjoy or comment on our pictures after a successful hunt. That's half the fun of it; Sharing it with others. Think of the thrill and pride that you have, when a fellow hunter says "Nice Buck" or "Atta Boy, That's A Good One". Nobody thinks that you should draw a map to your honey hole! That's not what I'm talking about. Pointing a guy in the right direction, giving a fellow hunter your thoughts or a helping hand should always be one of our top priorities. Stopping to help a hunter in trouble, even if it means we will lose an hour of daylight, or get there an hour after sunup is important. It maybe hard, but its importance defines our sport and ourselves as hunters.
Last, the responsibility to teach our youth to love and respect the outdoors is a must"
To those of us receiving help from others, "Don't Waste It"
To those who post helpful comments or help other hunters in need, "My hat's off to ya".
Family, Friends, and Big Mule Deer Bucks!!!! Those thoughts always bring me a smile!
If someone has helped you out, make sure that you pay it forward.
That's all I'm saying.... I think that the future of our sport depends on it.
Posted is a buck that I shot. I came across this buck while in the process of helping out a fellow hunter. If I had not been willing to go out of my way to help this hunter, I never would have been at the "right place at the right time" required for me to harvest this buck.
I do love me some “Huntin Karma”.
Thanks again, GOOD Hunting!!!!
( L4AB1 )
I'm getting ready to go on a Book Cliffs scouting trip. To say that these guys have been helpful to me is an understatement. In return I was able to give 2 of them some thoughts about the country that they are going to hunt this year. Info about the same country that I have hunted before. Info that I hope will fill their tag with a quality Buck.
I know that if we all take the time to pass it forward, we all will benefit. That's what being a hunter is all about. Helping each other. Some people have tried to turn this sport into an everyman for himself event. A sport where money and power rule. They are missing out on what is truly important. If it's every man for himself, then nobody would enjoy or comment on our pictures after a successful hunt. That's half the fun of it; Sharing it with others. Think of the thrill and pride that you have, when a fellow hunter says "Nice Buck" or "Atta Boy, That's A Good One". Nobody thinks that you should draw a map to your honey hole! That's not what I'm talking about. Pointing a guy in the right direction, giving a fellow hunter your thoughts or a helping hand should always be one of our top priorities. Stopping to help a hunter in trouble, even if it means we will lose an hour of daylight, or get there an hour after sunup is important. It maybe hard, but its importance defines our sport and ourselves as hunters.
Last, the responsibility to teach our youth to love and respect the outdoors is a must"
To those of us receiving help from others, "Don't Waste It"
To those who post helpful comments or help other hunters in need, "My hat's off to ya".
Family, Friends, and Big Mule Deer Bucks!!!! Those thoughts always bring me a smile!
If someone has helped you out, make sure that you pay it forward.
That's all I'm saying.... I think that the future of our sport depends on it.
Posted is a buck that I shot. I came across this buck while in the process of helping out a fellow hunter. If I had not been willing to go out of my way to help this hunter, I never would have been at the "right place at the right time" required for me to harvest this buck.
I do love me some “Huntin Karma”.
Thanks again, GOOD Hunting!!!!
( L4AB1 )
17,878
Impressive buck too!
I also agree this sight has very benifical to myself as well. I cant thank all of you enough for all your positive comments and advice.
Agreed! There is no other site on the web with the quality of folks we have here.
There is a bond and comradery between hunters that I don't see with most other outdoor sports. As a group I think that we do very well at sharing and helping others but I feel it cannot be said enough. I like that about hunting karma. I think it does indeed work. I have helped and been helped in the hills and it's a good feeling either way.
The one thing I think we could do better at though is making new friends on the mountian. We all go in our groups, family or tight knit friends but hey let's open up our camp and have dinner or a beer with people that are camped close to you. They just might become a new partner in your group and bring on their own new stories and knowledge. I don't know anyone who feels that there should be a limit to how many you go with , truly the more the merrier and each of us bring alot of value to the table. Good luck on your tags this year everyone!!!!
Jeff
Knowledge is meant to be passed on, good on ya. I hope you kill a monster out there!
i can remeber the days of being 16 -18. me and my cousin spent every second we could in the woods. it never failed- about once a week we would get stuck in his 2 wheel drive ranger. i cant count the times we were picked up on are 20 mile walk to town by some great outdoorsman.
on my backpack hunt this year, a guy i have never met before and was talking to on the trailhead. was obviously a little worried about me going by myself. he was polite enough to give me great directions to his camp and told me if i had any problems at all, to come and get them for help. THAT is what hunting is about!
Stories like these are filled with great examples of a word that we all hold dear
to our hearts..... Sportsmanship. The people on this thread have the ability to change the direction that hunting is going. Inspireing stories create change in attitude. I would like to challenge every one who reads this thread, to write an example of when they have helped someone in a jam or when you were helped while hunting. I think that we might be inspired, entertained, and in effect, might even plant a seed that might then change the thought process of someone who might otherwise not realise the importance of making a difference based on our actions towards our fellow hunters.
Can We collectively change the passion and direction of our sport?
Call me old fashion or even call me "Old School", but I think it is so.
If you think of it, all of the positive ideas that were created to make an impactual difference in our lifes started with one or a small group of people with a good idea.
Sorry if I seem a bit too passionate on this issue. I just think that in the old days a B + C Score was created originally to honor the animal harvested. Somewhere along the line, some missguided wealthy people, use it to claim a self imposed superiority over other Hunters. Some Guides use is as self promoting standard to reap monatery gain. When I hear stories of guides using their pickup trucks to block access to a public canyon so that other hunters don't have an equal chance at the same monster bull that they do, It bothers me. Out hike me, fine; Out think me; good for you; Get luckier than me; Atta Boy. But when you block the canyon so that you can take some rich guy (who flew into town the night before) and guarantee that only he has an opportunity to harvest the animal. Give me a freakin break. This guy did not scout an area, put in all the sweat and hard work to pattern an animal. He only makes more money than you and I do. Then that same Hunter is on the cover of some Hunting magazine, as if to insinuate that he is somehow a better hunter than the rest of us based on the same animal that we were denide an equally and fair opportunity to harvest. How can you claim a self imposed principle of harvesting your animal by a standard of "Fair Chase", if you deny other hunters an equal chance of fairly chaseing the animal in question.
I'm not talking about all people who use a guide to hunt on private land; to them I say good for you; you earned it and I hope that you harvest a dandy and have the time of your life! I'm not talking about the guides who help the afore mentioned hunters enjoy the hunting experience of a lifetime. I'm talking about the hunters and guides who lose themselves in the process and the sport. Those who forget that sportsmanship and a genuine interest in the well being of our fellow hunters, is just as important as harvesting an animal. I think you all know what I mean. I'm talking about the people who are lost in the pursuit of a self glorified hunting status, to the point that they will not even take the time to help you and I out when we are caught in a position of need, weakness, fear and at times even danger. Because after all, if they stop to help us...... They won't get up the canyon early enough to block everyone else from entering it.
I guess I'm done for now, thanks for your patience......
Let us decide collectively that it starts now, with us. We will create change. Change that will benefit our children and the sport of hunting. =D> :thumb =D>
It is good and refreshing to see the enthusiasm this post has brought about on this site. It gets me even more excited to get home and share this falls experiences with my family and friends and eventually with the rest of you when I am able to post again!
What's the true agenda? Money.... Power.... or Deer Herds?
It sure aint about spending 9 days hunting with your family, sharing time together in the outdoors.
First off I want to agree with some of your points. =D> I really believe that animals harvested outside of the state set seasons should not be elidgable for the B&C. I also agree that some hunters lose sight of anything but their personal success. Funny thing is some have tons of money and some have none.
However I have some different views on the subject also. :-k I guess when push comes to shove I have to say I like the dollars they put up that go toward our herds. I sure do not have that kind of money and I glad that those that do like hunting enough to throw huge amounts of money at it. If getting their face on a mag is what makes them tick, I'm ok with that. I have grown up and still spend alot of time in south central Utah. Land of giant bulls and posse outfitters. I personally have never had a bad experience with any of the outfitters. I've heard lots of stories, but it is always a friend of friend or an uncles cousin or a guy I work with that has these run ins. I have never personally talked to an individual that can tell me a first hand horror story. (???) I'm sure they happen, but not near what the urban ledgend would lead you to believe.
Lastly, I think we are beyond the 9 days in the field with family and friends. :>/ This is sad, but true. Our focus has to be on improving our overall deer numbers. :thumb If deer numbers increase we can discuss length of season and buck doe ratios and everything else we worry about. We have managed the herds so poorly until now that the time has come to make some major sacrifices, like 3 days seasons or even closed units. One more thought on overall numbers. If the deer numbers were much higher and we had more big bucks, how much would the Gov tag sell for. Think about that for a min, if more big bucks were available would a hunter pay as much for a tag. Would a posse be needed to find that needle in a haystack? I am telling you if we focus on increasing overall deer numbers we could really change our hunting or the better! We just have to be willing to sacrifice some now.
I have never though about that before, but it makes perfect sense to me.
Now back to the old school hunters code. I posted this story in the hunting pet peeves thread but thought I'd copy and paste it over to here as it applies.
After hearing about a granpda that in essence took a buck away from another hunter, I remembered this story.
Let me tell you about a grandpa that did it the right way. My brother was 16. His first deer hunt and none of us could make the trip. He shot a 4x3. Not a perfect shot but it would have been lethal with a small wait. The buck ran down hill about 150 yards and then slowed to a staggering walk. The blood trail down to him was significant. A father and a son had heard his shot. They were in the basin below my brother. When they saw the staggering buck they shot it. When my brother got down to it they ignored him. They just started gutting it. My brother said hey guys thats my buck. The dad said I don't think so! So my brother, completely dejected hiked back to camp. There was a grandpa sitting on a four wheeler near our camp site. He asked my brother if he was alright, becuase of his discouraged look. My brother proceeded to tell the story. He said the grandpa got irate. He said Boy if I ever get a hold of the guys that did that to you they'll be sorry. My brother went over and laid in his tent with his feet hanging out the tent door. About an hour later, he felt somebody grabbing his foot. It was the dad that had told him to leave and took his deer. The grandpa was his father. When grandpa told him what my brother had said they presented my brother with his buck. Field dressed and packed out. He didn't get to experience his first field dressing experience but he came home with a nice buck.
I'd say that grandpa had some old school ethics.
l too have a story about the honesty that should accompany hunting. At the wise age of 24 years old, l began to take a true interest in bow hunting. Being a broke college student, quality equipment was hard to come by, especially quality bino's. On the family deer hunt in Northern Nevada, we had met another group of hunters in a Jeep. After a brief conversation and exhanges of "have you had any luck?" we were on our way. For some reason, l noticed the man in the passenger seat had a set of Swarovski bino's, l mean REALLY nice ones. Man those are great binos. Well the week progressed, as did the hunt. Later on in the week, l was headed back to camp on a dirt road and found his expensive binoculars laying dead center on the road. There was no one around and no body would know i took them.
During that long walk back to camp, l played the scenario over and over in my mind, debating on what l should do. This was more than a question of hunter ethics, this was a moral dilemma and questioned my faith as a man of God and a husband. l considered myself an honest person and didnt want that to change. That being said l made up my mind if i had the chance to return the binos, l would without question or hesitation.
Later that week, I again passed the group in the Jeep. They were loaded up and headed out, they were done with their hunt. AS the Jeep approached l waved them down and returned the glasses. The man in the drivers seat was astonished that someone would return them. l said l hoped all hunters would do the same and wished them a safe trip.
Now l dont tell this story to toot my own horn but to give proof of "deer karma". To that point the hunt had stunk, l missed a 35 yard shot at a forkie broadside, my Dad was sick the entire time and l was not enjoying myself. Once the binos were returned, my luck changed. l swear to this day, that act of honesty changed my entire trip and outlook on hunting. That year l killed my biggest buck, a 3x3, and attribute it to the fact l was honest not only with others, but most importantly with myself. Therefore the Deer God's smiled on me for keeping Hunters code :thumb
"Lastly, I think we are beyond the 9 days in the field with family and friends. This is sad, but true. Our focus has to be on improving our overall deer numbers".
Muley,
Your comments sadden me my friend. Nothing personal, I've seen the propaganda before and I can tell you "That dog don't hunt". Maybe it is because I find myself as part of a generation who has different priorities. Maybe our time and opinions have run their course. This may be an effort by myself, to selfishly use this forum in a desperate attempt to return to a time or conditions which I remember to be described as brighter days. Maybe you'll have to trust me when I say "I just know better". You see when I was a teen, I remember a time in the 70's and 80's when some 200,00 Utah hunters were in the field hunting. A time when local sporting goods stores such as Sunset Sports and Wolfs had statewide "Big Buck Contests" where the winners won a brand new Jeep, hunting rifles, shopping spree's ect. It seemed like there were plenty of good bucks to go around back then. Hunting was a family tradition. Schools were out on the friday before the deer hunt because the schools knew that a majority of the students would not be present anyway. All centered around two great traditions; families and hunting.
Then it happened. The powers that be decided a couple of things that would forever change the landscape of Utah hunting traditions.
1st they decided to prioritize the quality of the elk herds at the expense of the deer herds. Old timers had great concern. They worried that the quality of Mule Deer herds would suffer in exchange for a limited entry opportunity to hunt elk. They also thought that they might only realize one chance to hunt a limited entry elk in a lifetime. That theory will prove true for some people based on the odds calculated and waiting period needed to succeed in more than one draw cycle. They were not in favor of the trade off. They lost. No one heeded warning.
2nd In an attempt to address the quality of Mule Deer opportunities, they reduced the number of mule deer tags to 90,000 and made hunters pick their weapon. They also made them pick their region of choice and limited the number of hunters one could have in his group. Many hunters and families were furious. They new that this could well be the end of their family tradition. They went away ticked off! The continued tradition of family hunting took a huge blow. Younger generations were no longer being taught the reverence and enjoyment of hunting and family tradition coupled as one. Many of our past and future hunting brothers and sisters were and have been lost as a result of the decision.
Now we're being led to believe this is the next great fix. There will be some trophy hunters who will be happy if there are less hunters in the field to compete with that is true. Shorten the hunts, "great they say, it is what is needed to achieve quality in our deer herds, well worth the sacrifice". Maybe true, maybe not.....
It is my concern that they are going to just tick more people off and turn them away from holding on to hunting traditions. Hell, it ticks me off! Hunting and family are two traditions that together have stood the test of time. Take family out of the equation and hunting may be the thing we all lose. How many families will stop hunting this year because of this decision? I have been told by some friends their done! They will instead take their family fishing at the Berry for a week from now on, instead of hunting. You see the thing that makes hunters strong and our voices heard is our numbers. As foolish decisions continue to be made, our numbers decline and the sport of hunting may be the real loser. Keep chopping away at the hunting tree, and some day that tree may fall.
The issue may be cloaked and we may be miss directed by issues like winter kill, predation, road kill, and deminishing winter feeding grounds, and yes...QUALITY. They are all things that need to be looked at, and addressed I would agree. But don't get it twisted...... For heck sakes, don't be convinced that you can milk a bull.
I think the thing that we need to ask ourselves is this.........
Can this sport survive by itself, with out being linked to the tradition of family? I say no.
Without family tradition how do we create the passion and numbers needed to fight off non-hunting legislation? We can't
I will stop my rant with this thought....
There are many ways to improve the quality of mule deer hunting, other than a 3 or five day hunts. Three (3) point or better units, or statewide four (4) point or better regulations are both options. How about this; You can only harvest three (3) bucks in a five (5) year period, take your pick. None of these options keep families from enjoying a nine (9) day hunt in the field and I still believe that you could achieve better quality. I don't care who proposed this new reg, Don Paey, the wildlife board, whoever, I could care less. I just wish they understood that there are more important things to consider about hunting, than harvesting a big buck.
Family is the common denominator to the future of the sport of hunting. If we lose that.....
What are the ramifications, that's all I ask you to consider.........
Thanks for your patience and good hunting,
L4AB1
Concerning your support and the amount of information that you shared with me before my Book Cliffs hunt this year, I can tell you one thing. The sport of hunting could use a few more like you. You're good people!
Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it.
L4AB1
I think you misunderstood the point of my post. You see I also remeber the days when school let out half day on the friday before the opener. How school was not held on the Monday after the opener because everyone was in deer camp. I remeber my small town being filled with hunters gasing up and buying grocerys. It was electric all over town. I remeber setting with my father on an opening morning and counting 27 other hunters gutting bucks in one valley. I remeber spending the entire week camping in the tippi with the same family and freindsin the same spot every year. They are my fondest hunting memories.
Then we shot the herds down to 3 to 5 buck per hundered does and the overall numbers crashed. How scary would our stituation be now if 200,000 hunters were still pounding the hills for 9 days?
When you talk of antler restriction, you are preaching to the minsters son! You see I sat and watched as my father and a select few pushed the antler restriction down the DWRs throat in the 80's. I watched as he was called every name in the book at RAC meetings. I recall going to work one morning with him after it had been past and reading and vular and threatening noted posted on his business door regarding 3 point or better. So when you say there are other options I understand more than you will ever know! Hell yes I believe antler restriction will work, HELL HELL HELL NO do I think the DWR will ever let it happen again. They lied to get it repealed the first time and they will lie again to keep it away.
My point is about herd quality was not for big deer. It was for a healthy herd! One that is at max carrying capacity, regarless of the buck to doe ratio, or number of mature bucks. If we get to max carrying capacity all of the those things can be better managed ie more days in the field, or late or early hunts, some units with higher trophy potential. But it all keys in on more overall deer numbers. We know that the best way to manage the herds like this is smaller units, However the DWR along with many sportsman (myself not included) are not will to do this yet.
So until that time I guess I am willing to cut back to 5 or even 3 days in the field if it will help bring back some numbers to the herd. If it works, great I can enjoy future hunts with my family. If it does not I am willing to try something else until we get it right, so I can enjoy future hunts with my family. If a full week of camping while hunting is needed to have a good outing the elk hunt is always an option!
One last thought. Don't be sad for me. You see, I can clearly see that herd cannot handle 9 day hunts and 200,000 hunters at this time. Maybe someday down the road if we manage it the right way. The ones to be sad for are the uninformed that don't see that yet!
I never said that I was sad for you. Only that your thoughts sadden myself. Also, I simply said that I remebered a time when there were 200,00 hunters in the field. I never insinuated that a 9 day hunt and 200,00 hunters was at this time possible or realistic. I do honor and champion your fathers efforts years ago. Unfortunately many of the majority chose to ridicule, chastize, and ostracize visionaries such as your father and other old timers who had the nards to stand up and voice their opinions. They were singled out by the masses and people labeled them as uninformed. Who knows, if their plan was followed maybe our current deer herds would rival the quality of our elk herds. I hold in reverence, your passion towards mule deer hunting. Sometimes on specific issues we must respectfully agree to disagree.
Years ago the DWR promised us that if we could select a region and limit the number of hunters on any given unit, they could eventually manage quality numbers of mule deer within each unit. They failed....or did they? Maybe they failed only in the eyes of those who propose 3 and 5 day hunts. Some would say that they have done a fine job with the limited monetary resources allowed them. Any decision they make must involve the main priority of funds. They want as much as they can get, which is not enough. That is why it is hard to say that the reduced days will equate to better quality. I don't know if it is still the standard, but I think that the money from license sales still goes into the states general budget. The operating costs of the division and costs to sustain wildlife are appropriated and budgeted by the state. That is why solicited funds are so important. The limited day hunts are the agenda of an identified group. If that group would just provide the example and choose themselves to only hunt 3 days, then that might solve the problem. Why don't they try that, first.
I will defend this simple statement,
Hunting will not survive as we know it, without being linked to the tradition of family! Period.
If your solution does not have the best interest of family hunting tradition in mind.....
Then your short sighted decisions are wrong!! To that there is no argument!
Good Hunting,
L4AB1
The DWRs plan for smaller units was a comprimise on actually going to even smaller micro units that could be managed year to year, depending on winter kill, predators, and feed. They did not want to go to that so they comprimised with the five regions. It has not worked because the areas are too big.
You are correct that the #1 goal of the DWR is more money. Until we can change that we are going to fight and uphill battle. Money is root of all evil!
I am still struggling to see how cutting days in the field kills family tradition? You are still able to go out and hunt deer. If you want more days in the field then buy and elk tag. The way the seasons have been set you could set up camp on the Saturday before the rifle deer hunt and hunt elk all week carry right into the deer hunt. You can now hunt upland game in Utah longer than ever before. I just believe the deer need a break in some of these areas and shorter season still give opportunity while relieving some of that pressure.
As far as the guys pushing for a 3 and 5 day hunt being an example. I would bet that a high percentage of those same hunters do not usually punch a tag in Utah. I would dare say they are selective hunters that are not harvesting a deer just to say they did. They seem to be the only ones that are standing up and saying , "yes I will make a sacrifice for something I love to do". If you really believe there is a better way then put a group together and gain support. I can promise you one thing if you get enough support SFW will be more than will to help push it through. So organize your anterler restriction thoughts and come up with a plan, present it and gain some support for next years RAC meetings. I can promise you I would give 100% support. But until you do, I will support the group that is doing something to help our deer herds, even if I don't agree 100%.
Thanks for your thoughts. I'll bet that after some time together we would probably agree on most issues. The thing that makes it hard is that many families only hunt deer. The deer hunt is their tradition. You make some good points, but there are other options. I hope people understand that just because people hunt with their families does not mean that they shoot just any buck. In our group, if you shoot anything less than a 24" buck, you're on your own getting it out. It happens from time to time, but there is never any hard feelings. It's the rule that we agree on and are all happy to follow. It doesn't mean it's right for everyone, it just works for us. Even the young hunters want to pass the small ones for a chance later at a big one. Most often there is 6 to 8 people in our camp and truth be told, most years we go home without filling a single tag. I know that we might be the exception but that's how we try to maintain the quality balance. We try to save up so that we can try to hunt in more than one state from time to time. We end up hunting in more than one state about every 2 to 3 years if we can draw. What really scares me Muley, is that many people will say, "if I'm only going to be out here for three days , I just as well shoot the first buck I see". None of us want that, I just think that if a region is bad enough to support only a 3 day hunt, they should just close it all together. It seemed to work at the Book Cliffs.
Better yet, maybe they need to talk to Wyoming Game and Fish. If you draw out in region G for example, you get to hunt for two weeks in the northern end of the unit. It then ends and a hunt starts in the southern end of the unit for another two weeks. You can Mule Deer hunt for a solid month with a rifle.
Then there is our great state of Utah. The Wildlife Board, Don Paey, Jimmy Crack Corn, The Dee Burger Clown, and for hells sakes Santa Clause himself, can't do better than 3 or 5 days to hunt Mule Deer.
Heaven help us......
P.S. I'm trying to make people realize that the decisions that the wildlife board are making is offending the majority. If the majority goes away, so does hunting. I'm a passionate hunting fanatic who will never stop hunting. I am smart enough to realise that without the majority, I might not have the option.
To address your challenge, getting something together and trying to gather support is exactly what I'm trying to do on this thread. Funny thing is Muley, your the only one that seems to be gettin in the way.....
Take care, good hunting to you and yours,
L4AB1
I agree that the majority does not want shorter seasons. The problem is the majority does not want shorter seasons or antler restriction or small units or chose your weapon. The majority don't even think about deer hunting this time of year. Like I said lets hear your plan, not just random ideas and I will support it. I really wish I was the only one in the way! So lets hear the plan and I'll start spreading the word!
I assume that you are trying to make it personal, when you quoted "Like I said lets hear your plan, not just random ideas and I will support it".
I'm sorry that you think that my Ideas are random. I thought that they were well thought out. I'm sorry that you don't understand my plan. I thought it to be simple and specific. You see, I haven't been trying to educate you within this thread. I have been trying to create passion within others about the sport that I love. I have also let you, your opinion, and perspective help me make my points.
I think most people understand why I have concerns that the road which the future of hunting seems to be traveling, might very well be a rocky dead end. I think that most people worry themselves. I have been trying to start a grass root movement with a simple Idea which will create the passion needed for individuals to stand up and voice there opinions, in an effort to regain something that I think is quickly being lost.
In your last comments, last paragraph, you stated "The problem is the majority does not want shorter seasons or antler restriction or small units or chose your weapon. The majority don't even think about deer hunting this time of year".
What gives you the right to assume that you understand or speak for the majority? Why do you presume yourself a spokesman to champion their opinions and cause? I'll tell you why. It is nothing more than self righteous arrogance. Since you seem to know it all, when was the last time the majority was asked? Don't tell me rack meetings either. That's horse crap. They don't want our opinions, they only want to say that they asked for them. Why haven't they sent around a questioneer to all of the hunters that carried a permit last year. Then they could follow the majorities wishes. Ask Don Paey that one.
Hunting and the outdoors is in the heritage and blood of many local Utahn's. With that in mind, Honestly, what did you mean when you said "the majority of hunters don't even think of hunting this time of year"? Are you serious? Are you that out of touch with reality? Do you think about what you are saying or do you just say anything to make an arguement? I wonder what Cabellas thinks about that line of crap? Most of my Christmas gifts have something to do with hunting. I'll bet others do as well. I think that the majority of hunters think of hunting year around. The proclamation comes out this week or next. Draw applications and deadlines are just around the corner. Then draw results, shed hunting, scouting, right into the bow hunt. I mean honestly, are you serious? Do you think that you are even taking the time to think things through? It seems that you are trying to educate me with you half cocked ideas, and random pointless arguements. Maybe you think that a majority of hunters including myself are a bunch of uneducated morons, who will buy your line of nonsense. Maybe you want to call the majority including myself "uninformed" again, is that it?
I'm done. This thread needs to get back to what it was created to inspire. Good and kind acts between hunters and the good karma that you receive when you think of others before yourself!
Good Hunting and Happy Holidays,
L4AB1
Maybe, maybe not.
Based on your quote in a different post which read "I've been against some of Don Peays ideas in the past but I have to say. Thank you Don. Glad to see the delayed 5 day hunt dropped and put as a three day hunt. Now I can only hope my unit goes L.E."
I didn't expect that you would understand or agree with my point anyway. However, I appreciate your opinion. Thanks for the constructive critisizm.
L4AB1
Well said!
Lookin,
Like I have said I would rather see antler restriction than shorter seasons or lost opportunity. However I just believe that the DWR will never go that route again. That belief comes from past experience and statements that the DWR has made.
You know you are right that the RAC does not carry much weight in the decisions that the Wildlife Board makes. That is why it takes groups like the SFW working all year long to get things done. They have organized and raised money to support their views. Do I agree with everything they do, NO WAY! But they are the only group gettting anything done, so I will support them overall!
I do not claim to speak for the majority I only state the fact that in the past the majority has not had much to say. The DWR has taken polls in the past and the majority has said just leave it the way it is. Well if the SWF and other groups would have accepted that answer we would still have 200,000 hunters and even fewer deer than now.
I do not understand how shorter season affects family tradition. You can still go out and hunt nobody says you cant go a few days early and scout and stay a few days later if you want more time on the mountain. I know I will still take my boys out and we will enjoy the time on the mountain.
As far as grass roots movement, good luck, like I said get it rolling and present an plan. What units will be antler restriction, how many tags, season dates, regions boundries. You know, not an idea, A PLAN. I'll stop there before you take something I have said personal again, and give you a reason to call me more names. I promise I am not taking it personal, in fact you get it changed I'll let every one I know it started here with you. One bit of advise, not to speak for the majority again but, others will not be convinced as easily as me.