Paunsaugunt - Muzzleloading hunt hurt

I think your dead on brine, not really impressed myself either.

I dont get it?????
the muzzleloader hunt stayed the same........
are you worried about the fact that the deer have no rest in between?
IMHO thats hardly something a LE hunter should worry about.
are you worried that the rifle hunters will kill all the deer?
IMHO the success rate will be the same, possibly the rifle hunters will kill larger bucks? Again, not something a LE hunter should be worried about.
are you worried about management hunters scouting the area during your muzz hunt?
Welcome to trophy big game hunting! How many are there really going to be? A noticable difference compared to the typical amount of recreationalists?

A pauns muzz tag to me means hunting mature mule deer during pre-rut/rut with a primitive weapon. Nothing more, nothing less........ If some of the forementioned things provide more of a challenge, so be it. It'd still be the hunt of a lifetime and fun as HE!!

Sorry for the rant.... I just dont think it's a big deal..... why did they move the rifle hunt anyway? I'm there is a good reason.

Chet,

I understand your point, but this is POINTLESS to move things IMO. No I don't believe they moved the rifle hunt for good reason. But that's just my opinion, I think they moved it because the deer are on the move during the rifle hunt. So now in theory it should be a better rifle hunt.

Would it still be a fun hunt, SURE...less fun because of the move YES IMO. So that = BAD. :)

Oh and BTW the first couple of years the Management tag would be a fun hunt and a good tag. But after that, I think you'll see it be LESS than desirable.

Why not have a EARLY management tag hunt for archery only???????

Here is the goal of the management hunt taken from the proclamation...

So what better opportunity to do this than with an early bow management tag hunt with a longer hunt than 5 days??

Makes no sense to me.

Removing excess bucks on the Paunsaugunt and Henry Mountains limited-entry units—while protecting the larger bucks in the herds—is the goal of the management buck deer hunt. These two units have high buck-to-doe ratios. Harvesting smaller-antlered bucks will preserve trophy-class bucks and provide more room for does. Having more does in the herds will result in more fawns being born. Having more fawns will help ensure that these herds remain strong and healthy into the future.

So did they move the rifle hunt due to poor success? Were people killing young deer? 90% success doesnt mean squat if people are killing 2 year old deer! Maybe they moved it so more young deer would have a chance to make it to maturity??????? Heck I aint no biologist! lol

I've hunted this unit with both a rifle and muzzleloader, but probably the most revealing thing to me is my scouting trips between the rifle and ML hunts. The deer are on the move and a person sees more large bucks during that time period.

You had a couple of questions: First - are rifle hunters going to shoot the larger bucks- I say yes due to the fact they are now past the hard area to hunt and in more accessible areas. Second - no days rest - with a constant push - large buck will stay wary longer and most likely will not go into the rut as fast (excluding the weather variables of course). And third - Management hunters will looking for the largest buck they can find during the muzzleloading hunt.

You got to love it if you are a rifle hunter.

You archery hunters just kill me - make the management hunt an archery hunt - give me a break - you have all the advantages now and just keep pushing.

I think they ought to take the archery representative off the big game board and replace them with ML representative for awhile. You might see some benefical changes. I've got to give the archers credit for being very organized. MLoaders are going in every direction, but might look at things that might help ALL hunters rather than what is good for their select group. Yes, I also archery hunt, just don't live it.

Brine,

I archery hunt also, and don't live it either. What's wrong with having an early and late management hunt? I don't see any problem with it. :-k

The DWR changed the rifle hunt because of the STUPID rifle spike hunt. They didn't want both hunts going at the same time, like there will be very many spike hunters on the Pauns. #-o

I think they ought to take the archery representative off the big game board and replace them with ML representative for awhile. You might see some benefical changes. I've got to give the archers credit for being very organized. MLoaders are going in every direction, but might look at things that might help ALL hunters rather than what is good for their select group. Yes, I also archery hunt, just don't live it.

First, there is NO "archery representative" on the "big game board". In fact, as an archer who is VERY active in fighting for better bow seasons/dates/tags, I contend the Wildlife Board is very anti-archery. Where you get the idea they cater to archers is beyond me. :-k It is the rifle hunters who get the cream, the primitive weapon hunters, BOTH archers and muzzy's,, get the crumbs IMHO. Why/how you are turning this against the archers is beyond me. If muzzy and bow hunters would work together maybe we could get some traction. :thumb

The DWR changed the rifle hunt because of the STUPID rifle spike hunt

](*,) DUH I didnt even think of that!!! Rifle hunters would have pitched a fit if there would have been spike hunters on the hill!

What a mess!!!!!!!!

I'm a muzz hunter first, and an archer second

With these changes what could hurt the Paunsaugunt deer hunts are the constant chasing of the deer right into Arizona to be exterminated there. It will start with the spike hunt and end with the management hunt. That's one big constant push on the deer herd. It was bad before and it will be worst now. Arizona hunters should thank the Utah BGB. I am afraid the Pauns is going down - just hope the BGB is fast to correct their errors if it is an error.

Our USA Congress has shown us all, that (us) John Q. Public is probably smarter than the average bear and that goes our the local and regional officials too. I really think one good thought out letter is worth 10 people at a RAC meeting.

I have to agree with Brine it is stupid to push those deer for three weeks straight. ](*,) Is there even a spike hunt on the Pauns?

"JBird" wrote:Is there even a spike hunt on the Pauns?

Starting in 2009 there will be spike elk hunts on ALL but 3 LE elk units, the Pauns being one of the ones that will issue an unknown number of rifle spike elk hunters.

The public overwhelmingly opposed moving the dates, the primary reason was the fear of this allowing more of the bucks to be killed in Arizona instead of Utah where they live all summer and into the fall. The Wildlife Board ignored the public input on this issue.

A few years ago, a friend of mine showed me a video of a study made by a university back East on Whitetail deer that was done in a fenced controlled area. They changed the feed around - watched the different horn configuration - this was done over a period of several years. Little spikes became large monster racks - small two by three's became large 6 X9's or what ever. I can not remember exactly, but the summary statement was this: feed trumps genetics when it comes to horn growth. Those old large three points will most likely always be large three points and they do care on that gene, but a young small two X three's maybe a straight four the next year. They had such an animal in the test and it grew to be a magnificent animal.

The management hunt I agree with, but the way it was done was totally without thought - The constant push, the size. Most of you out there reading this would think that if you drew that hunt you would cull out only the oldest and the biggest management buck, but the mass of the people putting in for this hunt, regardless of the orientation, will just shoot a young three point or two X three which could turn into a monster four X four. In fact if it wasn't for this fact I could certainly go for an archery management hunt. We all know bow hunting is more difficult and a lot of the bow hunters would shoot any young two point or three point that was unlucky to get close enough for a shot. I think a very late season is right for this control hunt because the big o' management deer needs to be as dumb as a rock. What good it's going to do, I don't know.

well i agree with brine all though there are not a ton of pauns tags given out there will be a lot of people in there in a short amount of time with the spike elk. the pressure just wont stop and it wont give time to settle things down .... and its also more pressure than those animals are used to . now i bet there wont be a ton of spike elk hunters in there with every other unit being open and only 1500 more tags satewide given out . but if it is a problem maybe they should move the spike elk rifle hunt later in the year? so it didnt conflict with the le deer hunts.

now i dont spend much time in the pauns but i would think maybe giving a few more reg tags instead of a management hunt would be better! first . ..some of those smaller bucks that will be killed could be the future monsters that would have been taken a few years down th road....second why even do these management hunts! it bombed with the elk ! it just plain didnt work! why screw up the deer ?

I get so frustrated. Why is it always about elk? The elk are doing so well and the deer so poorly that when and if the BGB is going to error let's error in favor of deer and not elk. I would really like the elk herd on the Pauns to be non-exsistent, not everywhere, just that unit.

I agree we should be focusing on DEER not Elk. The Pauns Elk heard is smaller than it used to be and that's a good thing.

i think they should focus on both! not one more than the other!

Well im kinda in favor for the spike hunt on the pauns. and only in that area, nowhere else!!! It will exterminate the good elk herds everywhere.. If that happened on the Pauns I wouldnt object.. hahaha But the state just made a big mistake with the spike hunts.. But money beats common sense!

I tried my best and fought the change of dates. We organized and had many people send emails, but it fell on deaf ears. I am really disappointed with the Wildlife Board on this issue. There is no valid reason to have moved the dates on the Puans, 1000 Lakes and Oak Creek units. One of the poorest thoughtout decisions made by the Wildlife Board and UDWR in a long time.

Me and my dad and some buddys hunted the Paunie this last year (2008) and that was with a muzzleloader. the deer were still unrested and wild from the rifle hunt, why not move the muzzleloader hunt back just a little more... although they did move it back in 2008 than previous years

One downside to moving it back further is several of the big bucks actually leave the state and move into Arizona.

I don't totally agree with the whole thing about Arizona shooting all the deer, I've hunted the 12B which is the unit just south of the Pauns, and from what I've seen, hunting and just looking most of the bigger bucks stay in Utah.

I'm sure you old timers out there remember when we didn't have the numbers of elk that we have today. The whole south end of the state had a very limited number of permits. The deer stayed in the high country longer and I can remember certain areas, in the low country, where a hunter could not find a deer until the second weekend of the hunt. Now with the big push of deer hunters and elk hunters, these same areas are loaded with deer, after being harassed, even before the deer season starts.

This same constant push will have there Pauns deer south of the highway and on to Arizona faster than before - that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

We certainly don't need the deer hunt later or we might as well paint a number on the buck and have Mossback go with all of us and tell us which one of the rutting bucks to shoot. This change will be such an improvement in the rifle hunt and so drastically effect the muzzleloading hunt that if you're a ML'er, scream to the top of your lungs to any of those on the RAC' s or BGB. YOU HAVE BEEN SOLD OUT11