QUESTION FOR BOHNTR

or anyone i guess if you know the answer??? i just thought of bohntr cause he's the scorer

The main difference that I know of between the to is the weapon that was used to harvest the animal. I don't know the rules per say but I know that for pope and young there are limits to the equipment that you use. Limits like let off on compound bows I think that the most that they allow is 65% let off. Any animals that are shot with a bow with more let off than that are not eligible for an official score. I'm sure that there are more rules but BOHNTR will know beeter than I will.

Killer, I think a_bow_nut is on the right track.

Not sure what list you were looking at but it MAY be that it was an all-inclusive list. What I mean is, it's a list of highest scoring game animals regardless of whether or not they were scored by Pope and Young (archery) or Boone and Crockett (modern firearm).

As far as I know, the scoring systems are identical...it's the way it was harvested that makes the difference. (I may be wrong....just my two cents worth)

ya i know about weapons and let off and accsesories?? spelling?? but i took the note that the score of these animals was different in each catagory, and i don't know of any measurements that are taken differently to make tham score different, but thats the way the note made it sound?????????? so i'm looking for what would make the accual # different?

Killer, I went and took a look at what you were talking about this morning. You're right (of course, you knew that already...LOL) about the "@" symbol on there.
Here's my guess: It may be that the official that scored the rack for Pope and Young came up with a slightly different measurement than the Boone and Crockett scorer. After all, they are human too and therefore thier seperate measurements may a bit different (Probably no more than a 1/16 of an inch or so in most cases). I suppose this could really happen with a non-typical rack. STRICKLY speculation on my part though. Hopefully BOHNTR can shed a little more light on it.

Killerbee:

I reviewed the Idaho animals listed on their website and noticed the "@" legend and their definition at the bottom of the page. However, I could not locate a specific entry listed as such to confirm my theory.

Generally, when different meaurements are recorded it is a result of the animal being panel measured by P&Y at the two-year convention. (A panel measurement is conducted by at least two different "teams" of certified measurers to confirm the original measurements are accurate for the biennal awards period). Since the antlers/skulls are re-measured at a later date, the animal may have additional antler/skull shrinkage which would differ from a "normal" 60 day drying period required by both clubs. Furthermore, it is rare that panel measurements are the exact same as the original measurement since they are scrutinized by several measurers and have to be agreed upon before the next measurment is taken. Again, this is only done with top end heads to ensure accurate measurements are made.

There are a few times where differences are found in each individual measurers score as well. Since the system is not a science there will be slightly different measurments, as AGCHAWK pointed out.

Hope that my explanation is clearer than mud. #-o

Yes, thanks ! that makes sence like AGC stated as well, i'm pretty familier with the scoring system and was dumbfounded with it, i was taking it as a different type of scoring so it didn't make sence but thats more like it. thanks again guys for the reply's!

I'd like to supplement BOHNTR's answer a little. While each organization may panel score an exceptionally large animal, most of them will not have their final score changed simply because they score a slightly smaller amount two or three years later at a panel score, than they did after their initial 60 day scoring. P&Y and B&C both restore an animal to its original 60 day score, as long as the panel score result is reasonably close to the original score, and any slightly lower score could be chalked up to normal shrinkage over time. The only time they normally lower the score is if they think that the lower panel score is significant enough to indicate that the 60 day score was possibly not performed correctly. There is one exception to that, however. In P&Y, if you submit a trophy at a score higher than the current world record, the panel score IS your final score no matter what it is. The 60 day score is not even considered other than to get you an invite to the panel score. B&C will even give a WR its original score, however. Therefore, even though an animal is panel scored by both organizations, most of the time its final score will still be the same in both because both will give it the benefit of the "shrink factor" and maintain its 60 day score (with the exceptions mentioned).

To further answer the original question, yes there are sometimes slight variances between the P&Y and B&C scoring systems which might also cause them to have different 60 day scores. This could happen even if only one measurer measured it for both books (if he was certified by both groups). There are a couple of instances, but one is antelope. In B&C it is possible to have 3 of the 4 mass measurements taken below the prong, which would cause it to score higher. P&Y will not ever allow this, requiring that 2 be taken above and 2 below the prong. This will give it a lower score in P&Y than in B&C even when measured by the same person, at the same time, for both books. P&Y also has a rule that may affect the first circumference measurement if the horns are attached with Bondo. I don't recall if B&C has the same rule or not, but a difference like that could also give each book a different score. Hope this helps answer your question as to how such score differences could occur.

Marvin

Marvin:

Great explanation......thanks for taking the time to write all of that. About time you showed up!

To add even more, there are a few other "minor" differences in some species and rules. P&Y does not accept antlers/skulls "picked-up" and currrently they do not have a category for Tule Elk or recognize Walrus. (however, Tule Elk is in the works for P&Y as I type) P&Y also does not allow animals that have broken points to be re-attached for scoring purposes, as B&C now allows in certain cases.

For those who don't know Mavin (StickFlicker), he's a fellow P&Y measuring buddy from Arizona. I shared a few days with him measuring critters for P&Y a few years back. If you want to know anything about antelope, he's your man.......he's also the world record holder for that species.

StickFlicker, I don't know if I've said this before but WELCOME to the site. Any friend of Roy's is a friend of ours!

Also, thanks for the great information!! Very informative and clears a lot of the misconceptions. You too Roy...Sorry...LOL!

welcome to the site- stickflicker!, and thank you for taking the time for that post, very imformative! those were all points that i did not know so thank. and lastly ---- hats off to you for your WORLD RECORD ANTELOPE!!!!!!!! maybe if you have time you could show us a pic or two of it with a story to boot, i would love to check it out. again thanks for the info.

Thanks for the welcome!

Good additional points, Roy. Boone & Crockett also does not accept antlers in velvet, while Pope & Young accepts them but they have their own categories (not mixed in with hard-horned trophies for each species). The velvet category is also a "temporary" category, because any entry in velvet is only listed in one hard-bound edition of the book (printed every 6 years) and then not listed in future editions. However in the most recent edition, a CD is included which includes all the entries from all time, they just aren't all listed in the hard-bound book. Velvet entries are also not entitled to hold the title of world record, in P&Y, since they are a temporary category. So if you look in a velvet category in the P&Y hard-bound edition, the animal listed as #1 is likely not the largest ever taken, just the largest during the 6 year period since the previous printing.

In our State's (Arizona) record book, we have elected to accept velvet entries mixed-in with the hard-horned entries, but we subtract 2 1/2 % from the score, as an estimate of how much we believe that the velvet is falsely adding to the score. That's one more example of how a record might vary between the two national books and a state program. Perhaps Idaho's program may have some differences like these as well, as compared to the national programs.

Marvin