Question for you BOHNTR ?

Actually with that scenario the use of electronic equipment was not used to take the animal.......no more so then your truck used to to get there or your alarm clock that woke you up that morning. Regular game cameras are not a violation of B&C/P&Y fair chase......if they are used in the manner you describe. Therefore the entry is acceptable.

The game cameras that are not allowed are the "live feed" cameras that give the hunter/guide live recordings monitored by laptop, etc.....allowing the hunter/guide to monitor the water hole live and respond when something appears.

Hmmmm....I have never thought about this before until 6X6 brought it up. Interesting thoughts on the subject.

Great points Roy. Thanks for the clarification on the subject.

"AGCHAWK" wrote:Hmmmm....I have never thought about this before until 6X6 brought it up. Interesting thoughts on the subject.

Great points Roy. Thanks for the clarification on the subject.

and an ABSOLUTE clarification of it. thers not a "grey " area, evryone uses some sort of electronic device , truck, gps , yada, yada,....


if you drew your strip tag, and your guide showed you a buck that was the next world record- but on a trail camera, you'd have to be a pretty darned die hard not to shoot it just because it has had it's picture taken......

Thanks BOHNTR. I knew that I could count on you knowing the answer to my question where it pertains to the P&Y club. I don't want you or anyone else thinking that I am against trailcams because I am not. I think that they are great tools. I also think that they have saved the lives of some great looking whitetails that I passed up because I had a pic of a bigger one. I guess that I thought P&Y would take a harder stance. I still think that the trailcam telling me which tank to sit would be looked at a little more harshly than say the flashlight that I used to get to that tank. The flashlight or truck as you stated just got me to the area the trailcam photo told me where to go.

Personally, I don't use game cams......just not my thing. But those that use them seem to enjoy them.......kind of like a surprise present, as you never know what you're going to get/see.

I really can't say they give you anymore advantage than say physically sitting up on a hill and glassing the same water hole during watering hours. I've done that.....then walked down to the waterhole to check his track for future reference.....only to find a camera. Think about it, now we both (camera and I) have acquired the same amount of information......just different means to get there. Now I will say to those that use them........just because your trail cam is on a seep/hole doesn't mean a person can't hunt there.......the camera does not provide ownership of the public property in which it sits. Some seem to forget that.

Lastly, just because you get a photo of a buck on a camera......or see him on a hole.....doesn't mean you're going to kill him there.......especially on the Strip. Many of the bucks water at several different seeps and tanks. I know I arrowed my Strip buck by means of stalking.......even though I could have sat some water holes......but there was no guarantee a big enough buck was going to come in that week if at all. I liked my chances with spot and stalking.....where I was in control of what I hunted. Just a personal thing for me......and it worked out.

I've seen some very large deer and elk killed that have been scored and entered in SCI instead of P&Y or B&C since I've been in AZ and was told that it was because some sort of baiting was done prior or during the hunt and that it was legal here. You may want to discuss this with any guide whose services you engage. They were discussing making it illegal to bait but I don't believe it has been done yet.
Mark

As long as the baiting does not violate state law, then entry into P&Y/B&C is allowable. Currently, Arizona allows baiting. Some will have their animal entered into SCI so they can have "higher" score, as their system is different than B&C/P&Y........however SCI also allows pen raised animals in their records program.

I'm not much of a record book kinda guy but even if it is legal how does baiting qualify as fair chase? I thought fair chase was one of the criteria for P&Y or B&C? I'm confused now. #-o
Mark

Quite simple.....baiting is acceptable under the rules of fair chase.....providing it's legal in the respective state in which it was taken. I've never hunted over bait and have no future plans to do so.......but I know in parts of Canada without bait you'd probably never see a bear within archery range.

Very true.
Mark

Roy, I guess where I thought that P&Y would find it questionable is in your scenerio you were watching one seep but If I had the money I could put a camera on every water hole on the strip and hire a team of people to check the pics. In one night you covered one spot and I covered them all. I realize that just because you got a pic does't mean that you will kill the buck but it sure eliminates alot of other less productive areas.Seems it might take away alot of the hunting which you were doing and puts it into the category of moving in for the kill.

6X6:

You're absolutely right......and what you just described occurs annually on the Strip and Henries. It's not a violation of fair chase in terms of record entry.....but not my preferred method of take.

"6x6 bull" wrote:Roy, I guess where I thought that P&Y would find it questionable is in your scenerio you were watching one seep but If I had the money I could put a camera on every water hole on the strip and hire a team of people to check the pics. In one night you covered one spot and I covered them all. I realize that just because you got a pic does't mean that you will kill the buck but it sure eliminates alot of other less productive areas.Seems it might take away alot of the hunting which you were doing and puts it into the category of moving in for the kill.

Doesn't sound like much of a "hunt" if you ask me, I prefer my spotting scope and some boot leather. I understand a couple cameras & checking them every couple weeks, but this scenario is a bit over the top (even though it happens regularly on the premium units).

I dont like trail cams. We have a favorite canyon in ca. d-14 near lucerne valley with bucks, bighorns, and a very large old black bear. The only time you see the bear is when he is stealing a bit of the food my partner left out at night, or while glassing so I prefer to leave him alone. Then a friend who recently died of cancer gave our spot away and they placed trail cams near the springs and oak groves and came up with lots of pics of that bear. Luckily the bear is smarter than they are and has avoided their attempts to kill him. My point being those guys would have never known that bear was there or at least not how big he is with out the use of that trail camera. I believe it is about the hunt, Not knowing where to hunt from some camera instead of your own woodsmanship.