SFW is not for the average sportsmen
#1DEER 1-I
3/12/15 4:38pm
With this stand that SFW has decided to chose on the land transfer situation, you should all ask yourself who they have in mind before you support SFW again. Land being turned over to the state would be a great loss for sportsmen. SFW is the only sportsmen organization that has decided to support this BS and for me aside from all the other things SFW does that don't benefit sportsmen, this is the last straw for me. SFW is about the rich hunter and commercializing our wildlife here in Utah. They have not stayed true to their mission and worry more about economical and political values of the paths they take.
As a sportsman consider these points:
-Since SFW has been established you have less hunting opportunity
-There has been great loss in tag numbers since their establishment
- deer populations have decreased steadily over the last few decades since they were established
- they continue to use failed management strategies that have been proven ineffective
Now ask yourself these questions:
-Do you see more deer now that they've had 3 decades to prove their mission and have failed?
- is it easier or much harder for you to draw a permit to hunt?
-why should public tags be taken out of the general publics hands and given to a private organization that gets to benefit by keeping even a portion of the funds raised off a 100% public resource ?
-what has happened to your hunting opportunity?
There was also this quote:
“We can’t do our part for our nation’s wildlife resources without the support of the hunters who come to Expo to buy the hunt of a lifetime in our auction,” commented Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife CEO, Jon Larson. “We are so thankful for their generosity and wish them all the best of luck on their hunts this year.”
This to me shows how much SFW is for the rich hunter and commercialization of our wildlife. He thanks the few millionaires who bought auctioned tags but not the thousands of hunters that go to the expo or buy public hunting licenses supporting Utahs economy and wildlife.
There are some great volunteers at SFW that have been fed crap by an organization that is letting us pay our own way right out of the hunting and fishing heritage we all hold so dear. SFW's true mission is dollar signs for wildlife and they prove it more every day by staying in bed with the Utah legislature to keep our tax dollars pouring in instead of standing beside every single other conservation group and saying NO to this ridiculous land transfer agenda and standing up for thee sportsmen they rely on for support. I will never attend the expo again so long as SFW is in charge of it, I will never go to one of their banquets, and I will never be a supporting member until they change their tune and honor the mission statement on their website.
To SFW say NO, until they have our interest in mind.
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I'm not near as anti SFW as you are in this thread, nor am I a supporter either. I was a member for a short period at one point. They do some GOOD things and some LOUSY things but most of us aren't much different either IMO. Take for example coyote predation and the bounty...who's idea was this? Is it a bad thing or good thing? Do coyotes really have that much affect on Mule Deer population and recruitment to deer herds? BYU's study they are finishing up (4 year study) sure shows that coyotes will decimate a deer herd because of fawn recruitment. I could go on for hours with my opinion on all this stuff. Bottom line is DWR controls the hunting in UT not SFW. Yes they are influenced by them and some of it's good, some not as good. I'm all FOR the capture, study, and transplant of these recent does etc. vs. kill them. Which would have never happened without SFW and MONEY.
Just a couple of my 2 cents.
As for there power with the DWR. The DWR has gone away from managment and science as well in the name of money. Their job is not to make money but to manage our wildlife so that they will be here for future generations to enjoy. They don't do their job either. Most biologists will agree predator control does not help deer herds, there are deeper reasons they are struggling. But because SFW has such power in the legislature the DWR is dealt shit plates of what SFW see's as fit policies and has to work with the shit plate they are given. Utah itself is as anti-wildlife and anti-future of our natural resources as they come. They want as much money as they can off our wildlife resources and then cut funding constantly that ensures a good future for those same natural resources that make this state great. Just this past month they cut phragmites control on the GSL, and approved a unnecessary Bear River damn project that is going to cost taxpayers billions over the next couple decades, while lowering the GSL, infesting it with phragmites, and hurting waterfowl and waterfowl hunting.
As for predator control. I'll go deeper in another post because I'm strapped for time at the moment. Predator control as well as mule deer transplants are proven not to work. Both of these are heavily endorsed by SFW. It is a waste of sportsmens money. Deer are affected greatly by other things we do, and predators are the escape card because our deer herd is sick and unhealthy. Predator studies only show what we already know, predators kill deer, that isn't a ground breaking discovery, overall predator removal does not yield higher deer numbers, and many studies have proven that. So those deer are dying anyway despite the predators being removed, so obviously the predators are not the problem, there is something deeper. As I said I'll post more in a while about why predator control is a ridiculous argument and is simply a band aid when we need a full surgery.
To start look through the research in the link above. They are very scary problems our wildlife face and these situations are only getting worse. Sportsmen need to take a more active roll in contacting the legislature and representatives on decisions that are made in our corrupt state. If you want your children, your grandchildren, and future generations to have the same opportunities we have now, then you better bet we as sportsmen need to be more informed, understand the reasons wildlife are struggling, and fight for the future of our natural resources and hunting heritage, especially in this place we call Utah that they are under constant attack from those who wish to lose/change them forever for big money.
I would also like to know what SFW has done for you to improve hunting opportunities in this state? Because all they've done for me is take them away, and stand against sportsmen on important issues.
Now let me talk about predator control a little. SFW endorsed the $5 to our licenses dedicated to this useless cause. SFW enjoys taking credit for growing deer numbers in our state because of this and habitat projects. In reality very easy winters are the only reason we've seen marginal growth in our statewide deer herd over the past few years. Let me guarantee you that one harsh winter and we will be back to 200-250,000 animals if that. Is SFW going to take credit when our deer herd collapses in the near future? We have something scary building up and it is only getting worse. We continue using failed management policies, and ignoring the real issues that would benefit our wildlife. These habitat projects everyone is so fond of are putting poisons on the ground that our wildlife use to survive. Herbicides are used in every "habitat improvements" and in turn are eaten by our wildlife which creates a whole line of issues. We see under-bites in areas where these chemicals have been sprayed, as well as more cactus bucks which are incapable of breeding. Cactus bucks are malformed deer that have testicular issues and are unable to breed, and that is why they grow the antlers they do. In these areas we also see immune system problems, mineral deficiencies and all kinds of other malformations in our wildlife. Do you think it would be safe to spray the poisons we do on "habitat projects" onto your own food and eating it every day? Then ask yourself why would laying down deadly chemicals on our wildlifes winter range they heavily depend on have good affects on them? If you go through the research in the link above I think you will begin to understand more why deer herds are struggling, and the serious issues we are creating for our wildlifes future. Predators have nothing to do with our struggling deer herds. We have some serious issues that are not being addressed. Now I have dumbed down the studies to fit them into this small post, but there is a lot of good information on this site as well as around the rest of the internet. I would suggest looking into them and understanding why our deer herd is truly struggling and what the future looks like.
Here are a couple links within the website to help you to some of the right information. There are links on all these pages to various studies as well. If you love mule deer, hunting, or the great activities we enjoy that have to do with our wildlife and natural resources I would read through these and educate yourself. The best thing sportsmen can do to protect our privlidges is become more knowledgable about the troubles their future faces.
Struggling deer herds is a complicated issue and has many factors, whether you like to admit it or not though predator control is absolutely one of them. Trust me I know we don't live in a perfect world or work for a perfect DWR but they are and have been doing some good things. The sky is falling down just yet. There could be some sweeping and huge beneficial changes that would make things better, but the one thing I can agree on is it's mostly driven by money and revenue. I was ALL FOR the tags being cut back, still am and if I had it my way cut a few more. Utah gives away to many deer tags for the number of animals we have. But if you like to chase around 2-points on pumpkin hill during the rifle hunt then by all means our current system is great...and heck why not add a few more tags to kill more bucks...HECK NO!!
By the way I'm familiar with the website you posted have been for some time, entered some pics to their contest and never heard a word back from them. lol
I've educated myself a lot more than you think or know. And will continue to do so.
Matter of fact I'd love to see the 5 day hunt COME BACK. I'd love to see some units closed for a period of years and then rotate units throughout the state every so often and close them to hunting also. I'd love to see our point system fixed, it's a mess and all tags are now LE some/most entering point system now will NEVER draw a tag.
I'm in favor of tags being cut when its necessary, which is rarely biologically necessary. It's necessary because people think they need to see a 4 point around every corner. I've seen plenty of bucks and there's plenty left. Predator management is necessary, just like any other species, but focusing on predator control and deer transplants is getting us no where. And worrying more about high buck:doe ratios and bigger bucks rather than healthy populations and more deer.
1. How old are you?
2. How many deer have you killed and what size?
3. Why do you claim to be an authority on the subject? Why do you think YOUR opinion is correct on all these matters and no one else has any idea what they are talking about?
4. Last but not least (see below) which STAGE are you currently in?
FIVE STAGES OF A HUNTER
Hunters change through the years. Factors used to determine
"successful hunting" change as well for each hunter. A hunter's age,
role models, and his years of hunting experience affect his ideas of
"success."
Many hunters may fit into one of the following five groups. In
1975-1980, groups of over 1,000 hunters in Wisconsin were studied,
surveyed, and written about by Professors Robert Jackson and Robert
Norton, University of Wisconsin-La Crosse. The results of their
studies form a widely accepted theory of hunter behavior and
development. Where are you now? Where would you like to be?
SHOOTER STAGE
The hunter talks about satisfaction with hunting being closely tied to
being able to "get shooting." Often the beginning duck hunter will
relate he had an excellent day if he got in a lot of shooting. The
beginning deer hunter will talk about the number of shooting
opportunities. Missing game means little to hunters in this phase. A
beginning hunter wants to pull the trigger and test the capability of
his firearm. A hunter in this stage may be a dangerous hunting
partner.
LIMITING OUT STAGE
A hunter still talks about satisfaction gained from shooting. But what
seems more important is measuring success through the killing of game
and the number of birds or animals shot. Limiting out, or filling a
tag, is the absolute measure. Do not let your desire to limit out be
stronger than the need for safe behavior at all times.
TROPHY STAGE
Satisfaction is described in terms of selectivity of game. A duck
hunter might take only greenheads. A deer hunter looks for one special
deer. A hunter might travel far to find a real trophy animal. Shooting
opportunity and skills become less important.
METHOD STAGE
This hunter has all the special equipment. Hunting has become one of
the most important things in his life. Satisfaction comes from the
method that enables the hunter to take game. Taking game is important,
but second to how it is taken. This hunter will study long and hard
how best to pick a blind site, lay out decoys, and call in
waterfowl. A deer hunter will go one on one with a white-tailed deer,
studying sign, tracking, and the life habits of the deer. Often, the
hunter will handicap himself by hunting only with black powder
firearms or bow and arrow. Bagging game, or limiting, still is
understood as being a necessary part of the hunt during this phase.
SPORTSMAN STAGE
As a hunter ages and after many years of hunting, he "mellows out."
Satisfaction now can be found in the total hunting experience. Being
in the field, enjoying the company of friends and family, and seeing
nature outweigh the need for taking game.
Not all hunters go through all the stages, or go through them in that
particular order. It is also possible for hunters who pursue several
species of game to be in different stages with regard to each
species. Some hunters feel that role models of good sportsmen,
training, or reading books or magazines helped them pass more quickly
through some stages.
As for the original topic of this post, I really don't have a horse in the race. All I can say is when Colorado did away with OTC tags statewide for deer things seemed to get better. Much better.
Is that why your over here spewing your rhetoric hoping to find somebody to argue with?
Since he wont answer your questions i am going to answer them for him:
1. How old is he-----15
2. How many deer have you killed and what size?--------2 a spike and a two point
3. Why do you claim to be an authority on the subject? Why do you think YOUR opinion is correct on all these matters and no one else has any idea what they are talking about?----------------Because i read it on the internet and i know its true!
4. Last but not least (see below) which STAGE are you currently in? Limiting out Stage. I always get my buck. sometimes wounding three or four others but i always fill my tag.
Some of the other comments in this thread relating to mule deer herd health are interesting, but seem to be regarding the same old reasons of the past several decades as to how to grow our herds and perhaps a bit more out of the box thinking might be in order? We live in a different kind of 'hunting world' now, and it sure can be difficult to wade through. Sad, in my opinion...
Southern Utah chapter of SFW as speaking for the org. as a whole but rather taking a stand against what has been happening with the BLM and ranchers down there in the last few years. Good for them. :thumb
Also, it seems like every time I look at a new map, there are new areas closed down as "wilderness study areas".
That is getting old.
I also see where the BLM and private land owners do land swaps all the time but the public usually doesn't even know it has been happening for years now.
As for the original question here is SFW's statement, which at the current state I have NO problem with at all...
Just so you know I am 40 and a lifetime resident of Utah. I hunt mule deer, elk and sometimes antelope in multiple states. I consider myself some combination of the trophy and sportman stage. I typically won't harvest a deer that doesn't meet my definition of a trophy, but occasionally the mood will strike me just right and will shoot something less than my "goal," Currently 170+ gross.