Skull Picked Up - FINED

Though this was interesting...

http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/news/07-04/antlers.php

Tons of people pick these up, although it's against the law. This guy happened to get nailed and fined.
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NONYA
wHY DONT U GUYS IN THIS STATE WITH THIS REDICULOUS LAW CARRY A LIL BONESAW?
:thumb
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Nevadahunter
hmm.........I thought you could?
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I know its a technicality, but the law in Utah, like it is here in Oregon, says "naturally shed" antlers, so sawing them off can still get you fined. :nono:
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why cant you pick up the skull with antlers atached?
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bigbuck92
they think ya could of poached it,hid it, then said that you came across it and thought it was winter kill. i think the only reason we have this law is cause of the few people who acctually do this
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i saw a post on here just a little while back someone had some big elk horns still on the skull. :-k
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AGCHAWK
sneekeeboy, is this the thread you were refering to? http://www.muleymadness.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2919

If folks would follow rules and regulations in the first place then these laws would not be necessarry. I have no problem leaving them on the hill if it will keep folks from illegally killing an animal just to come back and claim that they "found it that way" later on.
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MuleyMadness
The law is the law. Wether we agree or like it or not. Always better to keep the law.

I'm not a fan of this law, but I know why it's in place. Bad people ruining it for the honest.
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AGCHAWK
I agree 100% Brett. It may seem "trivial" but just as I posted in another thread..."A few bad apples spoil the barrel".
If it keeps them from knocking over an animal illegally then I am all for it.
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NONYA
Poachers dont give a damn about the law,who do you think your kidding,all the law will do is alter the way they do thier poaching,it wont stop any of them,this law is a stupid as the gun control advocates who think gun bans will stop crooks from getting guns.We can pick up any skull we find here except bighorn sheep and i have sen cases where the F&G gives the guy who reported the skull somthing nice like a big 6x6 bull elk rack that was confiscated from a poacher.You guys need to get invoolved with your local F&G public meetings and make a proposal to alter this law,at least make it legal if you bring them it and report your find,if you dont get involved now they will outlaw all shed hunting some day,they dont have anything to do but com up with new regulations you better do what you can! :nono:
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AGCHAWK
NONYA, folks that decide to pick up a skull with the antlers still attached also apparently do not care whether it's against the law or not. Therefore, they are doing the same thing the poachers do...deciding on thier own which laws apply to them and which ones they feel do not. This puts them all in the same boat as far as that goes...if it's the law then it's the law.
I do agree with you though, if you do not like the way laws are enacted or enforced then get involved. Just like voting, if you don't vote you don't get to complain about who gets voted into office. If you're not involved in your local F&G/F&W and allow others to make the decisions for you then you have no right to complain when they don't go your way.
Like I stated above, I may not agree with this particular law either but it's on the books and therefore binding.
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NONYA
Binding yes,if you are a stand up citizen,dont matter an iota to a poacher,this law only takes away from the law abiding.I f i lived in your state i would draw up a proposal that would allow you to pick them up and check them in with the F&G,no poacher is gonna take himself and his illegal rack into the law enforsment office.Here in Mt you can make these proposals public at the F&G commision meetings.Look into it,its not as hard as it sounds. :222
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AGCHAWK
I agree with ya NONYA on that point. I guess my main point was "I would not put myself into the same catergory as poachers by breaking any law...no matter how trivial I thought it was.
I also agree it's not overly difficult to get yourself heard. We hold open forums here in WA too (I am not a Utah resident) and anyone that wants to attend is welcome to. All it takes is someone to draw up a proposal and you can get it heard.
Gotta love your passion on this my friend! If everyone was a passionate about this sort of stuff we wouldn't have the problems that we currently struggle with in the American outdoors.
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NONYA
My Dad and uncles got meinvolved in the F&G commision meetings before i was old enough to hunt,a frew years back one of my uncles was appointed to the commision by the Gov. and I spent many days helping him research proposal data,these commisioners take every proposal seriously no matter what the topic,they are there to allow the public to make changes,take advantage of thier service,we cant bitch about regulations that we havnt tried to change. :222
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The Ox
my thought is if you find a skull it deserves to be displayed every bit as much as sheds it shows that animal great respect and looks neat. ive found3 skulls with horns attached i kept 2 but i didnt know it was illegal at the time. so i guess according to agc im a poacher or no better now just great cuff me up gentleman.
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AGCHAWK
LOL.....We'll let ya slide this time OX.

I'm sure you know, that's not exactly what I was trying to say. What I was trying to say was that we all need to follow the rules and regulations that are on the books regardless of whether or not we agree with them. We cannot pick and choose what laws we want to follow and what laws we decide we can break. Heck, there were a lot of folks here that either didn't know what the law was regarding this or why it was a law in the first place. This leads me to believe that there are not enough folks getting involved with the game departments to begin with.

I agree with NONYA 100% in the fact that if you do not like current laws as laid our by our respective states then get involved in the process. Ignoring them will not make them go away...but it could make your checking account balance...and in some instances your freedom...go away.
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The Ox
i knew what ya meant i was just having fun. umm i would get more involved i just never hear or know of anything going on to get involved with
if i found a good skull i dont know if i could walk away from it i know i would never poach unless i had to (lost in the woods and needed food) etc.
and i do see some reasoning for the law but well i just wish more people wouild be honest and not poach it would just make things so much easier but what acan ya do there will always be poachers
i know of a lady dont know personally or even know who it is but she cannot eat beef for some reason but can eat deer and i ve heard someone will go shoot a small forky every once in awhile for her and i have no complaints about it i think those animals are put here for instances like that. she should and may have talked to the f&g and see if she could be put at the top of the list for poached deer though so she could recive it legally but i still dont care if thats all she can eat and i dont know how true the story is but o well
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Its sad that a law abiding shed hunter can't bring home a skull he finds. I find it hard to believe that a guy who willingly violates the law by poaching a trophy is going to worry about breaking another law by bringing the skull home. Every single violation of the skull law I've heard about was an individual that was unaware of the law in the first place. While I understand that ignorance of the law isn't an excuse, let's be realistic, has it really stopped anyone from poaching? Its like expecting a bank robber to obey the speed limit in his getaway. He's already a criminal, guilty of a more serious crime, so why should he sweat the small stuff? With the expanding cougar populations throughout the west, expect to find more and more deer and elk skulls, its shame they have to lay on the mountain and rot instead of being preserved and admired in a sportsman's home.
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THIS IS A TOUCHY SUBJECT, I CAN SEE. I WORK IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND WOULD HAVE A HARD TIME LEAVING A SKULL ESPECIALLY A BIG ONE. NOT SAYING THAT I WOULD BREAK THE LAW BUT ALL GREAT ANIMALS SHOULD HAVE THE RESPECT THEY DESERVE. I HATE THAT SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO MESS IT ALL UP FOR THE REST OF US.
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What about a post on here a while back when we all wanted to see the new record sheds and someone would not post them. because they wanted to put them in a magazine first. but in the same post here they are holding a big elk rack still on the skull. to me that is not following the law either! :>/
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MuleyMadness
turkey track

The Deer sheds referred to are not from UTAH. Plus they are sheds not a skull. The Elk skull pics were not picked up according to the post. Just found and picture taken on cell phone if I remeber correct.

No law broken in either case. All GOOD!
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AGCHAWK
Boy, did I stir up a hornets nest or what?!?! LOL

Great discussion though....exactly the way it should be. You cannot make changes if ya don't discuss the pros and cons and then take action.
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JackSparrow
I know of someone busted for the same reason. The officer had no interest in seeing the site of the find to prove the bull was not poached. The antlers were seized and later auctioned.
My question is this...Why are people like this getting busted but, the big name guys with the outfitting businesses, magazines, and video productions are not? They even put pics of the skull and antlers in their magazines and videos!
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I guess i read it wrong but i saw show me your rack holding a skull on the front lawn of someones house!! same thing we are talking about right!! :-k
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Utahbowhunter
Thats a great Buck!!!
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killerbee
wow, very interesting topic, so it's saying it dont matter if you found it in a state where it is legal to pick them up, if you have them in utah it's illegal. correct me if i'm wrong. but if it saves some animals from being poached than great! i think it will, because it's not just a matter of getting it out of the woods and home then your fine, your going to be hidding the skull/ or cut off horns and watching who you show it to cause at any time you could get busted for them- that little $217 fine isn't enough to do anything though, thats a very small gamble as far as i'm concerned that these people will still take.
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NONYA
Poachers risk thousands of dollars in fines,doing time in jail and loosing thier rifles and vehicles,you think this $200 fine is going to stop one of them,NOPE. :nono:
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MuleyMadness
turkey track

Not sure that Elk rack was Utah either, but could be wrong.

Good point Nonya, a slap on the wrist.
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My two cents are this, find, take some pictures, leave and do not call and let go to waiste.
Why, cause it is the law and nothing nobody can do to change other then time for law to change. If you turn them in they will say "Thanks" if they even go find them or can. Then they will sell them and so so. What do you get out of it? Nothing, nothing and nothing.
Whats sad is it doesnt matter if it was poached, hit on a road, predator kill or like I have been seeing more of dying from old age they take with giving nothing. It is hard for them to find a bullet from poacher otr whatever means the poacher used, let alone to catch the person so all they need to say is foul play looks involved.

So I let them lay and tell nobody were they are thats what I do.
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If if you are really interested in getting involved the fish and game in utah has a regional advisery council meeting in each hunting region a few times a year the dates are usually posted on there web site also how to bring up a subject durring a meeting. but let me warn you boring as heck
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Personally i think this law sucks and i will still pick one up if and when i see one, just like an arrowhead...i won't leave them there. (but that's just me taking the chance, i don't condone it.)

But on the other hand....this law is great for my business called "Skull Krazy" (putting sheds on reproduction skulls).
I've even had customers bring me antlers attatched to a skull plate, and i'll put them on a full skull. :thumb
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Ok, so what about the guy who was on the cover of either Muley Crazy or Throphy Hunter (i can't remember which one) of the huge non-typ skull he found on the strip...he's from Utah! ](*,)
I'm not trying to get him in trouble, i'd pick it up too if i found it, but this guy who got busted picked up his skull in Colorado, but brought it to Utah where he resides....WTF?????
This law sucks, there's WAY too many holes and red tape that goes along with it.
I say change the law back, it's only punishing the good citizen's, especially if the fine is only a mere $200+!!
That's not going to stop a "real poacher" from killing a buck in the winter and picking him up in the spring so he can say "hey guys, look what i found". ](*,)
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i still dont know why its illegle to pick up a skull? :-k
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MuleyMadness
In Arizona you can get a permit and then take it to what ever state you choose is what I understood. Which is exactly what the kid did on the cover of Muley Crazy was my understanding.

Utah should have the same law, get a permit. Not call and get it conviscated, agreed this is just plain crazy.
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in colorado we'er able to take a scull.
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Yes that's what sucks about the Utah law where this guy got busted, it's totally legal to pick up a skull in Colorado, he just can't bring it into Utah. :>/
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typicalmuley
Even if you harvest one legally and have the skull with the antlers attached how do you prove that you didn't pick them up? Do you have to keep the tag with skull for as long as you have it? Or how easy would it be for someone who did not harvest an animal the year before to slap a tag on a picked up skull or an illegal shot deer. This law doesn't stop anything, but it is a law and should be respected until it can be changed.
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I totally agree typicalmuley-
See the post "Utah shed hunters association".
This skull issue is on th i'd like to get squared around because your right....it sucks and there's WAY too many variables. I have all kinds of skulls in my home, garage and flower beds from bucks i have found or killed, how do i distinguish to the law which ones are legal, even though the found ones were picked up long before the law went into place?? ](*,)
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waynedevore
The first time I heard about the skull law in Utah I thought What a stupid
"be nice" law. I don't know of a deer hunter who doesn't have skulls or antlers from legally harvested deer with skull plates nailed up in the basement, garage, fence, flower garden whatever. And no difference in appearance to a skull picked up.

I think any hunter accused of picking a antlered skull up could easily win in court.
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StickFlicker
I agree, it would be very hard to prove in court that you picked them up versus legally killed them in some prior season (as long as you weren't caught taking them from the field). However, in this article the guy "pled guilty". I'm not sure what the facts were, if he got caught taking them from the field, or admitted that to a witness, or what. But I would think it would be a difficult law to enforce most of the time.
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TheGreatwhitehunter
its really to bad that wildlife is more of $$$$ thing than a tradition and family thing
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