The decline of the trophy mule deer
30inchbucks
11/24/03 7:55pm
Before you read this keep in mind I've experienced harrassment taking place on our mule deer herds especially in the desert country of limited entry units in both Utah and Arizona. Believe me it's a highly unethical practice of taking a number of trophy animals out of the herds. Limits do need to be set in order to preserve our resource for years to come. On another forum the suggestion was made to set these limitations on limited entry trophy hunting units only. I'm looking for your thoughts as hunters and other ideas to solve problems of technological advances. Think about this, What's next a heat seeking locator? What's your definition of a trophy buck? Please read and enjoy.
Where are all the big bucks? The fish and game departments will blame it on the drought, predators, or other excuses and leave out the truth. Years ago, I can remember archery hunting with my Dad and little brother looking across a big canyon and seeing anywhere from 10 to 15 mature bucks, all sporting huge racks. We would hike all day just to get into the area to hunt them. We never harvested any of those bucks, but every year we had great stories to tell about the one’s that got away. Now in the same area there are 4-wheeler trails all over and the bucks are gone. Yesterdays hunter had to hike or use horse to get into these areas to find the trophy class bucks. Today these areas are overrun by 4-wheelers and now chute planes. A chute plane is an aircraft that holds 1 to 2 passengers and is able to hover at slow speeds. It uses a parachute for wings, a light-duty engine for power, and is also referred to as an ultralite. They are becoming more and more popular especially among the guides. The bucks are running out of places to hide and the truth of the matter is they can’t hide anymore.
The idea of a trophy buck has also changed over the years. A trophy of yesterday is one that was worked for personally with many hours of preseason scouting and then getting lucky enough during the hunt to harvest the trophy class animal. Today the trophy is still one that is worked for, however, there are those that think paying thousands of dollars for a tag and guide for one is still a trophy. Magazines have pictures of huge bucks and stories behind them but they are leaving out the gruesome details. Most of these bucks were purchased with the almighty dollar. Greed is slowly destroying our deer herds.
The fish and game departments of many different states have closed areas down and have made them limited entry units. These areas are supposed to create better opportunities for hunters to harvest mature trophy class animals. But these areas are creating moneymaking opportunities for the guides, landowners, and even the fish and game (Governor Tags). These landowner, conservation, and governor tags are being sold to the rich for prices ranging from four to one hundred thousand dollars! The rich are able to hunt these units every year at the prime times and the rest of us are being left out. The average hunter is lucky to hunt these areas once every ten years and is lucky to find a trophy class animal that hasn’t already been pinpointed by guides, landowners, or someone else trying to make a quick buck. With all this money pressure out there to find and locate these big bucks, guides are utilizing every resource they can get their hands on to aid in the process. This is where the chute plane comes into play as a major contributor to eliminating the big bucks.
The desert country of Southern Utah and Northern Arizona has in the past been a trophy mule deer Mecca. The huge country once offered plenty of hiding ground for mule deer to grow huge antlers and escape the average hunter. Chute planes are able to hover just barely over the treetops at slow speeds and there is nothing that can’t be found. It is impossible for the deer to hide from them. Currently, these planes can be used until 48 hours before the hunt opens. With a plane and a good GPS these deer don’t have a chance. These big bucks are harassed all year long and it’s only a matter of time before a good area is wiped out. Affected by this activity is the famed Paunsagunt in Southern Utah, an area that is known for big bucks is now struggling. What once was, is now gone. Every year this unit has produced big bucks and it still does, but today there are very few that get that opportunity. This year 2003 out of 127 public rifle tags there was one buck known of taken that was 30-inches plus. The magazines and books that come out will claim different and show pictures of big bucks taken, but what they don’t tell is that the hunter paid big money to harvest it and chute planes were used to locate it. Another area that is known for big bucks is the remote area of the Arizona Strip in Northern Arizona. It is an area that still holds big bucks and guides have moved into the area in the last few years because the other areas have been cleaned out. The strip is in trouble because it will not be able to sustain that kind of pressure. It is similar to the Henry Mountains of Southern Utah where there are very few deer; it took only two years to clean that area out.
There is nothing wrong with guides trying to make an honest living or landowners that need to be compensated for their losses, but things have gotten way out of hand. There needs to be limits set or big bucks will be a thing of the past. The bottom line is that where these big bucks used to hide they can’t hide anymore. Just like 4-wheelers, chute planes are becoming more and more popular. What if every hunter that had a 4-wheeler also had a chute plane? If this happens think about this, “In the beginning God created everything including big bucks, then he created man and they bought chute planes, in the end there was nothing!” We can choose to do one of three things. One, sit back and do nothing or let these wildlife organizations suck our money and do nothing. Two, buy us a chute plane and join them in the task of killing everything. Three, organize as a group the largest ever and petition our legislators, local RAC members, and wildlife board members to change the laws in order to save our valuable resource.
Therefore, we must restrict the operation of chute planes or any other aircraft that hovers at any time of the year that are used to locate or harass any big game animal. Currently the law restricts the use only during the hunt and 48 hours before the hunt opens. By restricting use during any time of the year, everyone would be on a more equal playing field and hard work along with traditional ground methods would be used to locate. The animals could then hide creating the opportunities that we once had. Another thing we can do at a more personal level is not support these activities by purchasing their products. Names will not be mentioned but a lot of them are involved with creating videotapes, books, and magazines. It is tempting to have a look but think about what they are doing. There are plenty of products out there that are good and support the ethical hunter. They might not be as extravagant or loaded with huge racks, but you can have a clear conscience when purchasing them. We’re not after your money; all we’re after is your support in order to change what is happening. We need the support of every ethical hunter out there both young and old. All we need is a statement that reads like this, “I am in full support of amending the law to make it unlawful for any person to use chute planes or any other aircraft that hovers at any time of the year, in order to locate, observe, or harass any big game animal or protected wildlife” along with your name and full address. If every ethical hunter out there would support this we would have the means to get it passed. Please make your voice heard using the contact information below:
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources (http://www.wildlife.utah.gov )
Regional Advisory Councils-Chairs
Ernie Perkins, Northern Region
erperkins@earthlink.net
3087 Maxine Drive
Layton, UT 84040-7659
801-544-5123
801-479-4010 facsimile
Clay Hamann, Northeastern Region
clhamann@easilink.com
1673 N 3500 W
Vernal, UT 84078-9736
Ed Kent, Central Region
ekent@co.slc.ut.us
611 East Taylor Lane
Murray, UT 84107
Dick Manus, Southeastern Region
manus@emerytelcom.net
1384 W 300 N
Price, UT 84501
Gregg McGregor, Southern Region
gcmcgregor01@infowest.com
1683 Snow Canyon Dr.
Santa Clara, UT 84765
Utah Legislator Contact Information
http://se15.utahsenate.org/perl/spage/roster2003.pl
http://www.le.state.ut.us/house/members2003/membertablel.asp
Arizona Game and Fish Department
Main Office-Phoenix
2221 W Greenway Rd.
Phoenix, AZ 85023-4399
602-942-3000
rulemaking@gf.state.az.us
Arizona Legislator Contact Information
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/members/senate.htm
Where are all the big bucks? The fish and game departments will blame it on the drought, predators, or other excuses and leave out the truth. Years ago, I can remember archery hunting with my Dad and little brother looking across a big canyon and seeing anywhere from 10 to 15 mature bucks, all sporting huge racks. We would hike all day just to get into the area to hunt them. We never harvested any of those bucks, but every year we had great stories to tell about the one’s that got away. Now in the same area there are 4-wheeler trails all over and the bucks are gone. Yesterdays hunter had to hike or use horse to get into these areas to find the trophy class bucks. Today these areas are overrun by 4-wheelers and now chute planes. A chute plane is an aircraft that holds 1 to 2 passengers and is able to hover at slow speeds. It uses a parachute for wings, a light-duty engine for power, and is also referred to as an ultralite. They are becoming more and more popular especially among the guides. The bucks are running out of places to hide and the truth of the matter is they can’t hide anymore.
The idea of a trophy buck has also changed over the years. A trophy of yesterday is one that was worked for personally with many hours of preseason scouting and then getting lucky enough during the hunt to harvest the trophy class animal. Today the trophy is still one that is worked for, however, there are those that think paying thousands of dollars for a tag and guide for one is still a trophy. Magazines have pictures of huge bucks and stories behind them but they are leaving out the gruesome details. Most of these bucks were purchased with the almighty dollar. Greed is slowly destroying our deer herds.
The fish and game departments of many different states have closed areas down and have made them limited entry units. These areas are supposed to create better opportunities for hunters to harvest mature trophy class animals. But these areas are creating moneymaking opportunities for the guides, landowners, and even the fish and game (Governor Tags). These landowner, conservation, and governor tags are being sold to the rich for prices ranging from four to one hundred thousand dollars! The rich are able to hunt these units every year at the prime times and the rest of us are being left out. The average hunter is lucky to hunt these areas once every ten years and is lucky to find a trophy class animal that hasn’t already been pinpointed by guides, landowners, or someone else trying to make a quick buck. With all this money pressure out there to find and locate these big bucks, guides are utilizing every resource they can get their hands on to aid in the process. This is where the chute plane comes into play as a major contributor to eliminating the big bucks.
The desert country of Southern Utah and Northern Arizona has in the past been a trophy mule deer Mecca. The huge country once offered plenty of hiding ground for mule deer to grow huge antlers and escape the average hunter. Chute planes are able to hover just barely over the treetops at slow speeds and there is nothing that can’t be found. It is impossible for the deer to hide from them. Currently, these planes can be used until 48 hours before the hunt opens. With a plane and a good GPS these deer don’t have a chance. These big bucks are harassed all year long and it’s only a matter of time before a good area is wiped out. Affected by this activity is the famed Paunsagunt in Southern Utah, an area that is known for big bucks is now struggling. What once was, is now gone. Every year this unit has produced big bucks and it still does, but today there are very few that get that opportunity. This year 2003 out of 127 public rifle tags there was one buck known of taken that was 30-inches plus. The magazines and books that come out will claim different and show pictures of big bucks taken, but what they don’t tell is that the hunter paid big money to harvest it and chute planes were used to locate it. Another area that is known for big bucks is the remote area of the Arizona Strip in Northern Arizona. It is an area that still holds big bucks and guides have moved into the area in the last few years because the other areas have been cleaned out. The strip is in trouble because it will not be able to sustain that kind of pressure. It is similar to the Henry Mountains of Southern Utah where there are very few deer; it took only two years to clean that area out.
There is nothing wrong with guides trying to make an honest living or landowners that need to be compensated for their losses, but things have gotten way out of hand. There needs to be limits set or big bucks will be a thing of the past. The bottom line is that where these big bucks used to hide they can’t hide anymore. Just like 4-wheelers, chute planes are becoming more and more popular. What if every hunter that had a 4-wheeler also had a chute plane? If this happens think about this, “In the beginning God created everything including big bucks, then he created man and they bought chute planes, in the end there was nothing!” We can choose to do one of three things. One, sit back and do nothing or let these wildlife organizations suck our money and do nothing. Two, buy us a chute plane and join them in the task of killing everything. Three, organize as a group the largest ever and petition our legislators, local RAC members, and wildlife board members to change the laws in order to save our valuable resource.
Therefore, we must restrict the operation of chute planes or any other aircraft that hovers at any time of the year that are used to locate or harass any big game animal. Currently the law restricts the use only during the hunt and 48 hours before the hunt opens. By restricting use during any time of the year, everyone would be on a more equal playing field and hard work along with traditional ground methods would be used to locate. The animals could then hide creating the opportunities that we once had. Another thing we can do at a more personal level is not support these activities by purchasing their products. Names will not be mentioned but a lot of them are involved with creating videotapes, books, and magazines. It is tempting to have a look but think about what they are doing. There are plenty of products out there that are good and support the ethical hunter. They might not be as extravagant or loaded with huge racks, but you can have a clear conscience when purchasing them. We’re not after your money; all we’re after is your support in order to change what is happening. We need the support of every ethical hunter out there both young and old. All we need is a statement that reads like this, “I am in full support of amending the law to make it unlawful for any person to use chute planes or any other aircraft that hovers at any time of the year, in order to locate, observe, or harass any big game animal or protected wildlife” along with your name and full address. If every ethical hunter out there would support this we would have the means to get it passed. Please make your voice heard using the contact information below:
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources (
Regional Advisory Councils-Chairs
Ernie Perkins, Northern Region
3087 Maxine Drive
Layton, UT 84040-7659
801-544-5123
801-479-4010 facsimile
Clay Hamann, Northeastern Region
1673 N 3500 W
Vernal, UT 84078-9736
Ed Kent, Central Region
611 East Taylor Lane
Murray, UT 84107
Dick Manus, Southeastern Region
1384 W 300 N
Price, UT 84501
Gregg McGregor, Southern Region
1683 Snow Canyon Dr.
Santa Clara, UT 84765
Utah Legislator Contact Information
Arizona Game and Fish Department
Main Office-Phoenix
2221 W Greenway Rd.
Phoenix, AZ 85023-4399
602-942-3000
Arizona Legislator Contact Information
21,452
1st off, let me say I seriously hope everyone that visits this site will read your entire post and take it to heart.
Then reply themselves and let there opinion be known. I'm very familiar with the famed Paunsaugunt and have see it go from "Amazing" to "blah". Yes, I would still rather hunt there than most places; but it is no where near what it use to be. I found your article to be very informative, interesting, and convincing. It seems that harvesting trophy bucks is becoming a rich mans business.
I also feel there needs to be some drastic measures taken in certain areas, and I don't feel having a 5 day hunt is the answer. Which to me is simply a bandaid approach, when in many cases we need a tourniquet to stop the bleeding. Yes, this may mean losing dollars for the DWR offices.
How about 4-point or better on some units?
Anyway I hope some people jump in on this one.
If you haven't read it already, check this out...
As far as the general hunt I remember when they tried 3 point or better a few years ago. It seemed to me they had a problem with the man power to enforce it because of all the illegal kills. But I also think they didn't give it a long enough chance to catch on either. Think about this, If the division is so concerned about money, I personally would be glad to pay a license fee every year for the chance to hunt once every 3 years for a hunt that was worth hunting. Something needs to be done and the public needs to get involved to change it. Yes, these wildlife organizations are putting money into habitat which is good, but if there are no deer left to feed on that habitat then what? What get's me is these organizations are the one's everyone is relying upon to change things and the head of these vary organizations are guides. Example would be Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife. If they are so concerned about our deer herds then why would they sell their Paunsagunt conservation tags this year when they know the unit is struggling like it is? The answer is they are some greedy buggers! The public needs to wake up to what's going on! Some of these guides (not all guides) mainly the most popular one's that you see in all the books and magazines are stealing our resource for their own gain! There is a couple from Kanab that need to be stopped but everyone seems to think they are hero's because their clients always bag big bucks. Has anyone ever thought why that is happening? It's because they spend countless hours flying those planes and locating every big buck on our trophy units! Is this ethical? Is this fair chase? If this is what hunting is coming down to let's just cage them up, grow them, and then sell them to the highest bidder. Just some of my thoughts.
our vision here in Wisconsin. Whats the difference, if you use a chute
plane or a Stealth bomber to locate one?
Limited tags exist because everybody and his dog wants to hunt out west,period. The arguement that hunters are shooting off the trophies and wiping out the good genes is well, dumb.
Even if you locate one, you still have to find it 48 hours later, stalk, and then be able to shoot 300 plus yards to get it. Most of these rich slobs would miss anyway.
I'm not to worried about it. They need to start looking up more, just like whitetails do. Everybody bitches about the poor mule deer, and how there are no 30 inchers any more. Hell, they are out there, laughin their asses
off at people who wont research or hunt hard or or make up all kinds of excuses as to why they dont exist.
I'm going on a guided hunt this year out west, and yep i'm paying $2500
dollars, and nope i'm not rich, and yep, i'm going to hunt hard for it and
nope i'm not shooting a small one, and yep, i'm going to kill a big one, and nope, i dont feel guilty for doing it.
B
BY THE WAY, DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ME "RUINING" YOUR SITE, BUT WHEN I SEE POSTS LIKE THIS, I WILL RESPOND.
I stopped at a game check-point a couple years back just to see how everyone was doing and visit with an old friend who happened to be there and actually had a so called "hunter" brag to me about how he had "chased this buck down on his ATV", allowing the man on the back to take the shot once they tired the deer out, cornering them in an old wash. Is that HUNTING?!?! I've got to admit, I almost gave up hunting right then and there.
I have toyed with the idea of hanging my gear up permanently many times rather than put up with others that have no respect for the land, the animals, or other TRUE hunters, but my love for the outdoors and shear joy of the fair chase has kept me in the field. It's really not even a matter of whether or not I bring one home. It's knowing that I worked hard, did my homework, and enjoyed myself.
You can bet that I'll be making some phone calls and sending letters/emails to do my part and try to put an end to this! I think we owe the animals that we hunt that much at least.
I stopped at a game check-point a couple years back just to see how everyone was doing and visit with an old friend who happened to be there and actually had a so called "hunter" brag to me about how he had "chased this buck down on his ATV", allowing the man on the back to take the shot once they tired the deer out, cornering them in an old wash. Is that HUNTING?!?! I've got to admit, I almost gave up hunting right then and there.
I have toyed with the idea of hanging my gear up permanently many times rather than put up with others that have no respect for the land, the animals, or other TRUE hunters, but my love for the outdoors and shear joy of the fair chase has kept me in the field. It's really not even a matter of whether or not I bring one home. It's knowing that I worked hard, did my homework, and enjoyed myself.
You can bet that I'll be making some phone calls and sending letters/emails to do my part and try to put an end to this! I think we owe the animals that we hunt that much at least.
AGCHAWK
Good to see your still around. I miss hearing your perspective on things. Keep up the good work keeping us shed hounds in line.
I've given 30 something enough grief that I'm not even going to say anything here. I think he knows my position already. LMAO!
Cheers to strider it is good to see a few people who are doing things right.
ANYWAY ON TO MY THOUGHT ABOUT ANIMAL HARASSEMENT. IT HAS BEEN LIKE A NEEDLE IN THE SIDE TO WATCH OUR MULE DEER POPULATION DECLINE MORE AND MORE EACH YEAR. I TOO REMEMBER WHEN I WAS JUST A PUP AND SITTING IN A CANYON AND WATCHING OVER 9 OR 10 GOOD MATURE BUCKS FEEDING WITH MY OLD MAN. HE AND I USE TO HUNT OUT OF BACK PACKS, MAKING SURE THAT WE TREADED LIGHTLY NO MATTER WHAT WE WERE DOING. AS I LOOK BACK NOW I REALIZE WHAT HURT OUR DEER THE WORST BACK HOME. TWO WORDS. !!!!!!! 4 WHEELERS!!!!!!!! ABOUT 6 YEARS BACK MY DAD AND I HAD JUST KILLED A RESPECTABLE DEER AND WE HAD BONED HIM OUT AND HAD JUST MADE IT BACK TO THE TRUCK WHEN TWO OLD BOYS RAN RIGHT PAST US ON THERE FOUR WHEELERS INTO THE SAME CANYON WE HAD JUST COME OUT OF. NOW THIS CANYON WAS SO STEEP AND ROUGH THAT WE HAD A HARD TIME ON FOOT, BUT THESE TWO WERE GOING DOWN THE MOUNTAIN ON THERE FOUR WHEELERS. ANYWAYS, ABOUT TWO HOURS LATER MY DAD AND I WERE SITTING DOWN THE ROAD AWAYS EATING OUR LUNCH AND PLANNING A EVENING HUNT WHEN THESE SAME TWO GUYS CAME RIDING UP TO US AND SAID WYOMING SUCKS FOR DEER AND THEY COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY IN FOUR DAYS THEY HAD NOT SEEN ONE SINGLE DEER. I COULD NOT HELP IT, I LAUGHED RIGHT IN THERE FACES. MY DAD AND I HAD SEEN SO MANY DEER IT WAS CRAZY. NEEDLESS TO SAY THEY DIDN'T LIKE ME MUCH. SO THEY TOOK OFF AND OUT OF CURIOSITY MY DAD HEADED BACK INTO THAT SAME CANYON THAT I HAD SHOT MY DEER IN EARLIER THAT DAY JUST TO SEE WHAT WE COULD SEE. TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT WE SAW TWO THINGS, ONE,,,,,,,, THE WORST TRACK THAT ANYONE COULD HAVE POSSIBLY LEFT DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF THE CANYON ALONG WITH TRESS CUT AND KNOCKED OVER. AND SECOND MY DAD SHOT A GOOD 5 POINT NOT 700 YARDS FROM WHERE I SHOT MY DEER THAT MORNING. MORAL OF STORY, IF YOU HUNT ON A 4 WHEELER THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, I AM NOT GOD AND JUST BECAUSE I CHOSE TO NOT HUNT OFF A FOUR WHEELER DOES NOT MAKE ME RIGHT, HOWEVER PLEASE RESPECT THE COUNTRY AND THESE BEAUTIFUL ANIMALS THAT WE ALL LOVE TO HUNT SO MUCH. :x
Chute planes and 4-wheelers are nothing more than an attempt to substitute technology for skill. Those who would use these machines definitely hunt for different reasons then me. The problem is they're ruining alot of hunting areas for everyone , including themselves!
i don't think in as many words and as simply put, anyone could have said it better.
BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just wanted to let my voice be herd on the subject. I agree with the author partially. Chute planes don't have a direct effect on declining trophy mule deer. Sure they aid in taking big bucks, some are bucks that have never, or would have never, set eyes on humans in their life times. I don't think that the use of planes is ethical when it comes to hunting big deer, their sheds is another story. I would also like to look down on the authour for slamming an orginization that works for wildlife, not to get gain for themselves. See the Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife topic in the forum. Other than that the author is absolutely right. We all need to do our part to help the mule deer rebound, lets get the hunitng back to a state like the 70's, Hey even the early 90's was better than today. There is definitely room for improvement! You all pay attention to the ATV suit in Nevada. They are trying to get ATV limits set, not eliminate them, but just as a means of controll.
I totally agree that Utah's deer herds are a mess, we all. You, me, your buddy etc. need to stop shooting 2-points. Let the youngster shoot the little guy when he gets his first tag. The # of tags needs to be lowered drastically, way to many hunters chasing far to many deer.
It's all about money really though isn't it? Thousands of other companies have been forced to lay off employees. Is the DWR going to follow suit? I doubt it.
just some thougts for now...maybe some more later. :D
Just some thoughts to chew on for awhile.
The only way to change this would be to force the DWR to maintain the deer herds / buck to doe ratio's at a desirable level REGARDLESS of their operating costs ! If that means only selling 10,000 tags per year so be it , they may have to cut their costs or raise their fees but selling enough tags to cover their budget is not wise game management . The state also needs to be split into smaller zones with each deer herd micro-managed to ensure proper buck to doe ratio's etc.
The state of Utah is about 20 years behind on deer management , I think part of the reason they get away with this is the CWMU program , which gives tags to the land owners and keeps them quiet , while the general public gets left with overcrowded public land saturated with the absence of deer!
Why not tranquilize and relocate the bear? Was he weak/hungry/ and or diseased I suppose are a reasons to shoot him.
In the state of Utah I recall reading of, I think it was a sheep tag, that's put up for bid every year. The year I heard of it, it went to an out of state hunter for something like $90'000.00!!! If it's worth that much, maybe we shouldn't be hunting them at all. Oh yea, I forgot, it's about money.
The fish and game department's in every state will do whatever they want, all the while telling you what they are doing for "You" so long as the money come's in; they need raises you know. Ask your fish & game how much is spent on admin. and how much or actual game management. Find out how much of their income is for non-resident tag's, those pay real well you know!
Oregon is spending a fortune on those goat's even tho there's plenty of goat's to hunt in other place's; they also spent a ton of money putting in Redlegged Partridge, nobody"s ever killed one and none are left. Year's ago the state fish & game raised phesant's at Camp Adair to release. they admitted that pen raised bird's last less than a week when released and it cost them $15 per bird. Private bird raiser's were selling the same bird's to shooting preserve's and field trial org's. for $7.50. The fund's for these worthless program's were provided by the sale of licence's AND tag's!!! Follow the money. Where is the great schewan phesant they planted, on private property in the Willamette Vally? There are none! And where do you think the money came from for the advertizing to convince us they were doing this for us??? Right again!!
Sadly, if you want good hunting, you'll probally have to disband fish & game all together and turn management of game over to private land owners. You may not like that as hunting will become a sport for the rich only but' where do the best head's come from now? Wilderness areas we can't hunt well due to short season's and private property.
People who really need the meat and don't want welfare will continue to poach and the wealthy will never concern themselve's with cost's. Manufacture's will continue to advertize their product's as helping the hunter so long as there's profit it in it and the state's will continue to justify the cost's of tag's the same way and shorter season's means more forkhorn's to sell next year, and no more doe tags as then your eating your cash cow; good bad or indiferent, more does equals more deer to sell!!!!!Follow the money.....
Don
[/code]
Looks like a party on this post here i mean everybody is getting on in the action so i think i will also. Look it all doesnt matter to the DWR because they dont get enuff money to even attempt to take proper care of the wildlife. Maybe the government should think about the wildlife also before buyin their new car. Look the sport is stained period whether its blamed on 4 wheelers or planes or 4x4's. I was out duck hunting this yr and i was with my dog and i just fell into a pond and my hip waiters filled up with freezing cold water as i was out there a ways. Well as all of that was happening this guy fly's by me with an air boat and doesnt even bother to stop even though he seen the trouble i was in. Well as i got back to the truck i saw him loadin up the boat in his brand new ford truck and than he got in his truck an attempted to drive away. Little did he know he just got his truck buried in the swamp and couldnt get out. I jus waved as i drove by and let him figure it out for himself because of what he didnt do for me. I hafta say this also because it fits right into the convo as well. I've been up hunting monte cristo forever and we own a cabin up there as well but when comes winter tiem the elk herd starts to migrate downwards to better feeding grounds. Well Hardware ranch gets planes and helicopters and rounds up the elk herd up towards their ranch and for us hunters that do draw out once in a lifetime it absolutley ruins the hunt for us. Is it fair for them to rob us of the elk? i mean it isnt like it's their elk to round up in the first place. The Dwr also trap turkey and helicopter out bull moose from the area too. I mean we get robbed of alot of animals so that other places can thrive with them. I dont want to pay for a private place to hunt because tagging an animal isnt that important to me but i sitll think Hardware should leave the elk alone because ppl are almost garanteed to get an elk up there. The elk have a way better chance to just be left as they are. Ive been in the argument about how to save the herds but there is no true blue answer i dont think. Nothing will stop the poachers or unethical hunters all we can do is rob the good hunters from their rights and hopefully salvage somrthing out of nothing. I still say hey less deer and elk why isnt their less tags? seems common sense to me but they cant lose that kind of money i spose. Anyhow thought i would just put that in for yall to read.
Next time help the guy out. Don't lower yourself to his level, rise above him, sometime's it teach's them a little humility. And even if that doesn't work, it make's you the better man!
Don[/quote]