the elk facts the elk comity ignored!

this data is based on the new age objective set by the dwr, sfw, wildlifeboard. They still need to issue more tags according to their own data but they are cutting them instead.

they ignore the data and they cut tags on every unit to increase quality. when you have 99% success rate weapon in the rut is it a surprise the cream/quality is shot out!

wait until the void is created by these spike tags in a few years if it is hard to swallow these tag cuts!

you have to look at quality like a basket ball coach looks at a play ground full of kids. If you wanted to select a 7 footer out of the crowd you would want a big base of kids to select from. The larger the school the better your chances. Now lets say the kids all get n1h1 in the 9th grade and 50 percent died "kind of like our spike hunt" as a basket ball coach wanting a 7 footer your chances just went down. now compound this by having other schools coming in and recruiting your next tallest kids. As a coach what are you left with when this class graduates?

A bunch of fat, slow, short kids!

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n72/swbuckmaster/untitled10.jpg" alt="" />
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n72/swbuckmaster/untitled2.jpg" alt="" />
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n72/swbuckmaster/untitled3.jpg" alt="" />
6,562
MuleyMadness
People might need to see this data, so they know what your referring to.
Last night in a 12 to 3 vote, the elk committee for Utah voted to move forward.

The elk plan will have lots of great new efforts to focus on habitat restoration, providing diversity of hunting opportunity, etc. If should also allow Utah to move to 80,000 elk, up from 65,000 as long as mule deer nor livestock operations are not impacted. After investing over $65 MILLION in habitat projects on nearly 1 million acres, an increase in herds: keep quality, increase opportunity.


After 6 or so meetings and tons of analysis, looking at a broad based survey, etc the elk committee voted on this recommendation. Here is what most hunters want to know:


7.5 – 8 year old average age harvest bull units:

San Juan
Boulder
Beaver
Pavant
Monroe
Roadless Book Cliffs

6.5 – 7 year old average age harvest bull units

Road area Book Cliffs
SW Desert
Diamond Mtn
Central Mtns, Nebo

Fish Lake - NOTE,

the Fish Lake unit will be at this level, if the local elk committee agrees to bump elk herd to pre – blue Light special numbers of 6,500 elk. If not, unit goes to 5.7 to 6.3. The CWMU owners on the units want the higher age class, and they have asked SFW and Farm Bureau to work with other landowners in the area to find win/win solution to increase from the current 4,800 elk and move to 6,500 elk, prior to Blue Light special hunt that dramatically lowered this herd population.

5.7 to 6.3 Average Age Harvest Units

Panguitch Lake
Dutton
Wasatch
Manti
Lasal
Oquirhh Stansuby
Box Elder
Nin Mile Anthro

NOTE: The west portion of the Wasatch unit From Park City to Strawberry to Soldier Summitt and down to Spanish Fork Canyon to I 15 north to SLC and then to Park City (about 2,600 elk) will be managed where the majority of the permits will be ARCHERY tags – 65%, MZ 15%, and Early rifle 20%. This will be a five year experiment to see if the LARGE bulls on the Wasatch that used to winter along the face of the Wasatch foothills can be returned, while still maintaining opportunity


4-5 year old units

Cache
Three Corners
Box Elder – grouse creek
Paunsagunt
Fillmore Oak Creek
Deep Creeek
Nin Mile Range Creek


Finally, based on the survey and in an attempt to reduce pressure on the BEST bulls each year with rifles during the peak of the RUT, Rifle Rut tags will be reduced from 75% of the rifle tags to not more than 60%.

This is a very good plan in my opinion.

We spent countless hours looking at data, survey, talking to people


The DWR guys had some GREAT data to go by and were very cooperative and informative. Thanks to Anis, Justin and Kent. Anita as well.

The Committee Vote was 12 to 3.

The 3 descending votes wanted to see the age classes a little lower and have more opportunity but they were close to being completely on board.
0
MuleyMadness
Several questions I have, anyone know or care to chime in?

Who is on the Elk Committee?

What determines the age class per units? Who decides this and why?

If this is true...
After 6 or so meetings and tons of analysis...We spent countless hours looking at data, survey, talking to people
 then this isn't a "knee jerk" reaction IMO.

I completely agree with your "spike story analysis" saying that killing all of these spikes will have no effect on heard numbers, quality, size, or future bulls, is RIDICULOUS.

That's like saying hey "I'm going to remove 10 kids from your PE class, but it will have no effect on your class size" HUH?????? I had 50 kids before and now I have 40 kids, umm yep that's a difference. Quite significant actually.

As for the numbers of Elk increasing, I'm not really against it but are they planning on increasing numbers in only certain units or across the board?

I'd rather see us focus on increasing Mule Deer numbers though, not Elk.

We are STILL going to have a major LOG JAM for drawing a big bull elk tag. We need mandatory harvesting reports on EVERY big game animal IMO. If you don't report, you loose your chance to apply the following year for a bonus point or the ability to draw a tag. You SNOOZE you LOOSE approach. Recruiting younger kids into hunting is only PART of the answer, if the parents aren't happy and fall out they you can pretty much forget about the kids doing it o there own.

Just some thoughts...
0
swbuckmaster
people to sum this all up.
if you are applying for a LE elk tag in Utah your chances are going down the drain. It just got harder and we haven't felt the impact of the spike tags yet! You simple cannot kill from both ends of the spectrum and not have an effect on the tag numbers! When the void left by the spike tags is felt in about 4-5 years we will be cutting tags again! mark my word!!

This is all fine and dandy if you are on top of the point scheme, can buy the auction tag, but if you are a younger hunter, guy without elk points, or have a few points under your belt you are screwed!

It is also kind of like comparing it to the social security program. The government wants or forces you to keep putting in even though you know the system is broken and you will never see a dime!
0
swbuckmaster
Bret they are not increasing the elk numbers! It sounds like they are but there is a big* buy it. They say if elk don't interfere with the deer or the cows we will raise the population objective!

You and i know elk compete with cows and deer!

Also even if they did increase the elk numbers to 80,000 head the age objective we would probably only have 20 tags state wide increase in 4 years. Pro has those numbers so I cant comment on it but the tag increase is SMALL!
0
swbuckmaster
"MuleyMadness" wrote:Several questions I have, anyone know or care to chime in?

Who is on the Elk Committee?
I don't know all who was on the committee but the ones I do know surprised me on how they voted. they also didn't represent my views nor did they ask my views!

What determines the age class per units? SFW's view on how many 400" bulls were killed. Seriously Don wanted manage them by B&C score!

Who decides this and why?

If this is true...
After 6 or so meetings and tons of analysis...We spent countless hours looking at data, survey, talking to people
 then this isn't a "knee jerk" reaction IMO.

If they looked at their own data I got of their own web page they could not come to the conclusion they did. I am guessing they ignored their own data and came to this Knee jerk reaction cause mossback didn't kill enough 400" bulls this year so the quality must be slipping.

I for the life of me cant figure out why we have a 99% success rate weapon with the most tags in the rut and then have to ask ourselves why the quality has been shot out! It makes no sense!

I completely agree with your "spike story analysis" saying that killing all of these spikes will have no effect on heard numbers, quality, size, or future bulls, is RIDICULOUS.

That's like saying hey "I'm going to remove 10 kids from your PE class, but it will have no effect on your class size" HUH?????? I had 50 kids before and now I have 40 kids, umm yep that's a difference. Quite significant actually.

As for the numbers of Elk increasing, I'm not really against it but are they planning on increasing numbers in only certain units or across the board? Who knows they said that to make people think they arent cutting tags but increasing them.

I'd rather see us focus on increasing Mule Deer numbers though, not Elk. You and me both


We are STILL going to have a major LOG JAM for drawing a big bull elk tag. We need mandatory harvesting reports on EVERY big game animal IMO. If you don't report, you loose your chance to apply the following year for a bonus point or the ability to draw a tag. You SNOOZE you LOOSE approach. Recruiting younger kids into hunting is only PART of the answer, if the parents aren't happy and fall out they you can pretty much forget about the kids doing it o there own.

Just some thoughts...
 agree
0
sneekeepete
"MuleyMadness" wrote:
Who is on the Elk Committee?

What determines the age class per units? Who decides this and why?

I completely agree with your "spike story analysis" saying that killing all of these spikes will have no effect on heard numbers, quality, size, or future bulls, is RIDICULOUS.

As for the numbers of Elk increasing, I'm not really against it but are they planning on increasing numbers in only certain units or across the board?

I'd rather see us focus on increasing Mule Deer numbers though, not Elk.

We are STILL going to have a major LOG JAM for drawing a big bull elk tag. We need mandatory harvesting reports on EVERY big game animal IMO. If you don't report, you loose your chance to apply the following year for a bonus point or the ability to draw a tag. You SNOOZE you LOOSE approach. Recruiting younger kids into hunting is only PART of the answer, if the parents aren't happy and fall out they you can pretty much forget about the kids doing it o there own.

Just some thoughts...

I agree with everything you have said here Brett. I have thought that they should have MANDATORY harvesting reports on EVERY big game animal since I had just began hunting. It just makes sense to collect all the data possible in order to manage the wildlife and tag numbers for the next year.

I would also like to see them spend more time on deer herds. The deer are the ones really suffering in my neck of the woods not the elk.
0
Loafer
"sneekeepete" wrote:
MuleyMadness wrote:
Who is on the Elk Committee?

What determines the age class per units? Who decides this and why?

I completely agree with your "spike story analysis" saying that killing all of these spikes will have no effect on heard numbers, quality, size, or future bulls, is RIDICULOUS.

As for the numbers of Elk increasing, I'm not really against it but are they planning on increasing numbers in only certain units or across the board?

I'd rather see us focus on increasing Mule Deer numbers though, not Elk.

We are STILL going to have a major LOG JAM for drawing a big bull elk tag. We need mandatory harvesting reports on EVERY big game animal IMO. If you don't report, you loose your chance to apply the following year for a bonus point or the ability to draw a tag. You SNOOZE you LOOSE approach. Recruiting younger kids into hunting is only PART of the answer, if the parents aren't happy and fall out they you can pretty much forget about the kids doing it o there own.

Just some thoughts...

I agree with everything you have said here Brett. I have thought that they should have MANDATORY harvesting reports on EVERY big game animal since I had just began hunting. It just makes sense to collect all the data possible in order to manage the wildlife and tag numbers for the next year.

I would also like to see them spend more time on deer herds. The deer are the ones really suffering in my neck of the woods not the elk.
 I agree with sneekeepete they have focused on elk so much the deer have suffered greatly. The elk around here are awesome, lets put some effort into the mule deer.
0
swbuckmaster
ya i cant wait until SFW and the wildlife board gets a hold of my deer tags and pimps them out to the rich.

sorry guys I would rather hunt 22" 4pts every year then to go to spike deer and oil 22" 4pt.
0
The Ox
i dont even wanna chime in on this! but sounds to me like the commitee is doing what they want ,not what everyone wants. i totally agrre with you guys on the spike ,i completley hate the idea of it! the only benefit coming from it in my mind is ,and its only positive for the dwr is the almighty dollar! ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY! thye get to sell a ton of tags that are low success hunts. i absoulutley hate the spike hunt! especially how it coincides with the le archery. but thats another topic. im sick and tired of all of this, and there is nothing we can do about it , they just dont listen. they dont care about us thye care about money in there pocket.
0
The Ox
ive got another question how is it that arizona can offer more elk tags with half the population of elk in arizona than in utah? yet still pump out great bulls? i know an arizona res that has drawn an archery tag the last 3 years and has killed 3 350+ bulls.i was skeptical about that at first but i have seen the proof of it. anyway any ideas too why they can offer more tags and still have quality, and why utah cant?
0