UT DNR Lawsuit
HurriMuley
9/28/09 9:18pm
I'm considering a lawsuit against the Utah DNR to get my bonus points back or the 5 year waiting period waived due to Utah driscriminating against LE archery hunters this year by:
1. Due to the calender and the backwords planning from rifle deer hunt the Archery elk hunt started the earliest and ended the earliest it ever has.
2. Allowing spike/cow elk hunters in most of the LE Elk areas.
3. Not giving any time between the LE archery and LE any weapon hunt (ours ended on a Friday theirs started the next day, which put a lot of them "scouting" during the last week of my hunt)
4. The fact that the "any weapon" hunters get the rut is favoring the rifle.
5. The fact that there are NO spike/cow hunters during the "any weapon" or "muzzleloader" hunts (no equality).
I (and many other LE archery hunters on the Dutton) fought with Spike/cow hunters, deer hunters that were "scouting for elk for their Dad, brother, sister, cousin, buddy who has a any weapon tag", and all the paid outfitter scouts and LE any weapon tag holders "scouting". I'm frustrated and just plain pissed off as are MANY other LE archery tag holders this year. If you want in on taking action with me PM me and we'll fight the MAN together! :thumb
1. Due to the calender and the backwords planning from rifle deer hunt the Archery elk hunt started the earliest and ended the earliest it ever has.
2. Allowing spike/cow elk hunters in most of the LE Elk areas.
3. Not giving any time between the LE archery and LE any weapon hunt (ours ended on a Friday theirs started the next day, which put a lot of them "scouting" during the last week of my hunt)
4. The fact that the "any weapon" hunters get the rut is favoring the rifle.
5. The fact that there are NO spike/cow hunters during the "any weapon" or "muzzleloader" hunts (no equality).
I (and many other LE archery hunters on the Dutton) fought with Spike/cow hunters, deer hunters that were "scouting for elk for their Dad, brother, sister, cousin, buddy who has a any weapon tag", and all the paid outfitter scouts and LE any weapon tag holders "scouting". I'm frustrated and just plain pissed off as are MANY other LE archery tag holders this year. If you want in on taking action with me PM me and we'll fight the MAN together! :thumb
7,139
I highly doubt that any lawsuite would go anywhere but the waist paper basket since you voluntarily put in for the tag and subsiquently hunted on that same tag before you decided that it was unfair. It would have went a long way, at least in thier eyes, if you raised these concerns prior to the hunt...and probably before the draw.
Were the regs/declamation released BEFORE the draw deadline? I may be mistaken but I believe they were. Therefore, they would point to the fact that you should have known what you were getting into before putting in for the tag in the first place.
I feel for ya man and wish it would have been different. After all, it is a coveted tag and you should have every opportunity to fill it with a big bull. However, folks that have the other tags (the various folks you mentioned) also have every right to do what it takes to fill thier tags also. After all, we are all of the same "fraternity"...hunters and outdoorsmen/women and all have essencially the same goals in mind. As for the DNR...they have to be able to give all these different hunting groups time in the field and that time must fit within a relatively small portion of the year. I personally don't know what they could have done better or how they could have managed to get everyone equal opportunity but the way to fight it is to bring something workable to the table...not complain after the fact.
Again, I am by no means attackin' ya. As I stated before, I am just playing devil's advocate here. Trust me my friend...I would much rather be lookin' at pics of the big 380 class bull that you tagged out on than writing this. :))
Someone told me today that there was a discussion on this forum about the same things I've just discussed that had to be removed due to it getting out of hand. I believe it was about one of the same people that I had a run in with! I'm dealing with that from another avenue.
Yes everything was upfront, but the there was NO way i was to know how all of the changes would effect my hunt. Now I know.....
Again, I'm sorry the hunt didn't go as planned. Hopefully folks like you can start showing up at the various DNR meetings when they start planning for next season and voice these same concerns.
I'd just like to add that the competition/human element of hunting is one that we all must overcome in this game. Right now I'm facing the same delema with elk hunts in OR. Several of the hunts that I want include scores of spike hunters. I don't think that there's one person on this forum who hasn't had a hunt ruined by others, heck I just read a story on this forum today about a muzzleloader hunt in Utah. I know it's not what you want to hear, but the trick is to learn to overcome pressure. Several leading authorities have written articles on this, Mike Eastman one of the best. I'm sure sorry about your hunt and I wish I could say that it probably wont happen ever again, but the truth is that as long as you play this game, it will. Regretfully.----shooter ](*,)
We have a serious culture issue within the hunting community in the western United States right now - we have the normal people who wait their turn to hunt and we have the people that just pay their way in every year.... If you don't believe me watch a Mossback video and you'll see the same guy killing different things year after year in our own State. Last time I looked our government is run by the people not by big money - wait - that's not true - it's supposed to be, but it's not. Us little guys need to stand up and voice our concerns and without doing that in large numbers our voices will not be heard. I'll be at the next RAC meeting in March, I hope to see you all there.
i know its easy for people that didnt have the tag to say we are whining but had you a tag you would feel equally as cheated.
Ox I don't think your whining. It must be extremely frustrating. I believe that part of your gripe is the number of years and anticipation it takes to get the tag. Then all the years of learning the mountain and elk habits are tossed out the window with the spike hunters being allowed to come in and push the herds around.
One question I have is why spikes on LE hunts. If the herds are getting to big why not a late season management bull hunt. Some of the spikes they are taking are the next 400"+ bulls. A late management hunt would take out the less desireable bulls and eleiviate the pressure during the LE hunt. I think it's ideas like these that need to be proposed at the RAC.
If the law suit is brought up at a RAC I think the board would listen with closed ears. If they hear a reasonable solution they may be open to it. A management hunt would provide more hunting opportunities for good bulls that might not ever grow to the type of bull that a 10 -15 year wait seeks after.
To be specific, the state did not move the archery hunt back closer to the rifle hunt, in 2007 they extended the number of days archers could be in the field and in 2009 they ended the spike elk hunt on 9/6 to give LE archers the final (and best) week all to themselves.
Sorry to hear that your hunt wasn't what you had expected, but I don't see how filing a lawsuit against the DNR is going to solve anything. Having hunted an LE hunt and understanding what it means to have a tag I understand some of your frustrations.
Now that is just not true in the sense that you're meaning.
I am trolling - I admit - for ideas, answers, peace of mind, equality, and other things. I would like to effect change - a lawsuit is not always he best way, but it is a way. We need to talk and come up with answers to fix a few issues in Utah, and then attend the RAC meetings to voice our views. I'm not on here to fight, but it seems that is all people want to do. Sad world we live in. :-k