Utah elk size

are those still considered trophys even though they were killed on a unit where multiple 400 bulls were killed?

HECK YES! :thumb

I guess the overall average would be 340 range but this is only a guess. I have a friend that is a taxidermist and he mounts many bulls off the LE's that are in the 280-320 range. So they must be trophies to these people.

o theres some true monsters in the book cliffs if you know were do look. im not good at judging elk but i know when its big.

I'd say 340 is pretty "average" in Utah for the LE area's.
I can remeber the days in the LE units that if it had 6 points per side, it hit the ground and was considered a "trophy bull".
We've came a long way since then, wow!!! =D>

I am going to say 340-360 is an average for a nice herd bull, also not strange to see two or more that size in a herd. Were we hunt is central Utah and last year I ran into atleast one herd with two or more bulls averaging in that range but I did run into three different herds and they each had one big boy that was in the 370-possibly 400 range. I do know there are beginning to be more big boys out there.

If and when I draw I would be certain to run across and pass up many 340 bulls and hope to get that 380+. [-o<

I would be safe to say Utah has the best big bull ratio to herds out of the other states.

I'd guess the size of the average bull killed on LE units in Utah is below 330...and yes that is still a trophy.

Well, I'd say that Utah will slowly pull ahead of Arizona further in the big bull department, since the AZ G&F's new proposed policy is to lower existing bull ratios and manage more for quantity than for quality. The good ol days are likely gone...

StickFlicker, Utah has already passed Arizona for big bulls.

I would guess the average size harvested is around 330 here in Utah. A 330 bull is a big bull probably around 5-6 years of age. I dare say MOST elk hunters, even those in states like Utah, Arizona, and New Mexico, would be estatic killing a 330 bull ONCE in their lifetime.

PRO

"proutdoors" wrote:StickFlicker, Utah has already passed Arizona for big bulls.

PRO

i deffinatly wouldn't quite go that far, i do think they shoot a ton more of the really big bulls, but the biggest of the big bulls still seem to be listed as ARIZONA. they are getting closer each year though. but who really cares, i would love to draw a tag in either one of them.
Can someone come up with a pic of the world record typical Boone and Crockett bull, that thing is a monster, been a while since i seen a pic.

330 is still a big bull!

I wonder how many hunters draw a tag, and then expect an easier hunt than it really is cuz all we see on the videos are the kill shots and clips of the biggest bulls that they see. whats your thoughts on this?

9er

If I remember right...I read somewhere that there were something like 21 or 23 bulls killed in Utah last year (2006) that went over 400". Incredible!

9er, you have a pm

Killer, is this the bull you wanted to see? The Alonzo Winter bull is still listed as the Boone and Crockett #1.

I know there have been a lot of BIG bulls taken recently but I believe that Mr. Winter is still the king of the hill.

WELL WELL WELL!!!! thats the bull AGC, thanks, i swear it never fails if you ever have a question HAWK will get it for ya :thumb :thumb i couldn't remember the name. dang thats a beast right there! thanks again AGCHAWK!

No problem Killer. That's what I'm here for.

That bull is amazing.

I am confused by what is "the biggest of the big". I consider 400+ to be the biggest of the big. Utah killed MORE 400 bulls than any other states by far.

I guided a hunter in 2004 who killed a bull that went 402 and netted 394 6/8, putting him number 4 in Utah. Today that bull is not even in the top 10 for Utah. My point is, Utah bulls are AS big or bigger than anywhere and there are more of them than anywhere.

A 330 bull is still a dang fine bull for atleast 95% of the hunters out there.

PRO

Man...what a pig. The front end on that thing is amazing...anybody have a side view?

I was watching the video with the Dickerson bull a while ago and was amazed at the difference in attitude only a few short years ago. Guys were not talking about 400 inch bulls then; 370-380 was considered an absolute monster and 350 would have surpassed most folks dreams. Time has certainly changed our attitudes about what represents a trophy. What will it look like in 10 years?

Fact of the matter is that these 400 inch bulls or any record book bull for that matter are the exceptions, not the rule. It takes a lot of time and effort to locate these bulls and the willingness to let bulls go that would make someone like me mess my pants with excitement. Genetically...most bulls just don't have what it takes to hit that mark even under ideal conditions.

That is a HOG of a bull. Love the length of those tines.
That is what dreams are made of.

This show's who's got the best bulls as of late-
Utah leads hands down.


1. 412 7/8 Utah, UT
2. 411 3/8 Millard, UT
3. 410 5/8 Gila, AZ
4. 408 4/8 Millard, UT
5. 404 4/8 Gila, AZ
6. 403 4/8 Garfield, UT
7. 402 5/8 Athabasca River, AB
8. 402 4/8 Emery, UT
9. 401 Garfield, UT
10. 399 7/8 White Pine, NV
11. 398 3/8 Rio Arriba, NM
12. 397 3/8 Powder River, MT
13. 396 7/8 Garfield, UT
14. 396 7/8 Catron, NM
15. 396 7/8 Navajo, AZ
16. 396 2/8 Socorro, NM
17. 395 5/8 Park, WY
18. 394 6/8 Garfield, UT
19. 394 2/8 Utah, UT
20. 394 2/8 Beaver, UT
21. 394 Douglas, CO
22. 392 7/8 Cibola, NM
23. 392 6/8 Yellowstone, MT
24. 392 White Pine, NV
25. 391 3/8 Navajo, AZ
26. 391 Beaver, UT
27. 390 6/8 Cibola, NM
28. 390 5/8 Catron, NM
29. 390 3/8 Sioux, NE
30. 390 3/8 Garfield, UT
31. 389 7/8 Sevier, UT
32. 389 5/8 White Pine, NV
33. 389 3/8 Modoc, CA
34. 389 1/8 Cache, UT
35. 388 7/8 Golden Valley, MT
36. 388 5/8 Larimer, CO
37. 388 4/8 Elko, NV
38. 387 6/8 Garfield, UT
39. 387 3/8 Mohave, AZ
40. 386 5/8 Goshen, WY
41. 386 2/8 Lincoln, NV
42. 386 2/8 White Pine, NV
43. 385 6/8 Coconino, AZ
44. 385 6/8 Coconino, AZ
45. 385 6/8 Graham, AZ
46. 385 4/8 Powder River, MT
47. 385 4/8 Wasatch, UT
48. 385 3/8 Garfield, UT
49. 385 3/8 Park, WY
50. 385 2/8 San Juan, UT

skull crazy, what list is that? And what year? I don't see a couple of "biggest of the big" from Utah killed in 2006 on your list. Just to toot my horn, three of those bulls on your list were taken with me as the guide, very hard to explain the feeling of harvesting animals of this caliber. That is what I live for right there. :tz

PRO

ya, where did that list come from? shouldn't there be a couple bulls on there from MT. too? i beleive ol' chucky adams has a two 400+ bulls from there and brenden burns should have one, they are 3 really recent bulls. and shouldn't shaun patterson's bull be on there from AZ ? hmmm----- i think this list might be rigged :)) :)) :)) :))

I am pretty sure this are B&C scores, not P&Y. Adam's and Patterson's were taken with archery, that would be a whole other list.

PRO

"skull krazy" wrote:This show's who's got the best bulls as of late-

??? maybe we can find a different one that shows all of them???? :arrow

That would be good. I would love to see the P&Y as well as B&C and the smokepole records, typical and non-typical.

PRO

Yes, it's a list of the top 50 rocky mountain elk from Boone & Crockett.

However.....this list is only of the top 50 bulls that were actually entered, i'm sure there are more out there that people chose too keep out of the books.
Utah did take at least 10 bulls over 400" last year alone, i beleive mossback owns 6 of those bragging rights, and not all of those went on that list i posted for one reason or another.
Pretty tough to beat from ANY state!

But....i'd LOVE to have a tag in Arizona, they have some narly looking bulls over there!! :thumb

skull crazy, what years does this list span? The reason I ask is the top two listed in Boone and Crockett are not the same two at the top of this list (I take it that these are the more recent bulls)

Your Mossback numbers are low, but you are right, I wouldn't turn down an Arizona tag for several of the units down there. I would add a couple of good units in Nevada and Montana as huntable.

PRO

I beleive it an '05, but i'm not sure, i pulled it from a similar post on another site.
Proutdoors recognized a couple bulls he was involved with on it, so he may know if it's an '04 or '05 list.
Either way, it's within the last couple years and quite impressive, no matter WHO has the highest entries.
There are a lot of bulls that people choose not too enter. I have guided for 13 years with one of the best outfitters in the west and have taken 3 B&C bulls with clients that have chosen to keep off the books for personal reason's, and i'm sure Arizona has several like that as well that are off the books, as well as other states.

I have personally killed record class animals and have entered NONE of them. When I draw my LE archery tag here in Utah and kill the new World record(hoping), I may enter it.

I would guess there is around the same percentage form all states, hunters who choose not to enter their animals. I doubt Utah has higher numbers because the hunters are more likely to enter their animals. Two of the three bulls I guided on that list are from other states, only one was a 'local'. Conservation tag holders are usually out-of-staters. Atleast the ones I have had the opportunity to guide.

PRO

I totally agree proutdoors.
Look how many huge bucks turn up at garage sales or in bars that were killed back in the early days that were never entered in books. I beleive there are more people today apt to get their name in a book than back in the "good 'ole days when it wasn't such a big deal.

I myself am looking at a Henry's deer tag within the next two years. If i take a buck that will book, i may or may not put him in. But then again, he deserves to be recognized.

Here's the top 50 typical since 2000:

1. 412 7/8 Utah, UT Doug Degelbeck Doug Degelbeck 2006 13
2. 411 3/8 Millard, UT Denny Austad Denny Austad 2006 *
3. 411 3/8 Rosebud, MT Chuck Adams Chuck Adams 2000 15
4. 410 5/8 Gila, AZ Dan J. Agnew Dan J. Agnew 2003 17
5. 408 4/8 Millard, UT Lloyd R. Jacobsen Lloyd R. Jacobsen 2005 *
6. 404 4/8 Gila, AZ Jay Scott Jay Scott 2005 *
7. 403 4/8 Garfield, UT Shan J. Ogden Shan J. Ogden 2006 26
8. 402 5/8 Athabasca River, AB William J. Huppertz William J. Huppertz 2004 27
9. 402 4/8 Emery, UT Brian J. Gilson Brian J. Gilson 2003 *
10. 401 Garfield, UT Larry L. Ball Larry L. Ball 2004 36
11. 399 7/8 White Pine, NV Chris R. Knapp, Sr. Chris R. Knapp, Sr. 2003 44
12. 399 6/8 White Pine, NV Troy A. Means Troy A. Means 2000 *
13. 398 3/8 Rio Arriba, NM Robert North Robert North 2004 49
14. 397 3/8 Powder River, MT Picked Up W.A. Buck Titus 2004 55
15. 396 7/8 Garfield, UT Ryan D. Brindley Ryan D. Brindley 2003 *
16. 396 7/8 Navajo, AZ Gary W. Crowe Gary W. Crowe 2004 59
17. 396 7/8 Catron, NM Picked Up Robert J. Seeds 2002 59
18. 396 2/8 Socorro, NM Bill L. Clark Bill L. Clark 2006 64
19. 395 5/8 Park, WY Keith Hamilton Keith Hamilton 2005 68
20. 394 6/8 Garfield, UT Brent D. Lowry Brent D. Lowry 2004 76
21. 394 2/8 Utah, UT Lynn O. Grant Lynn O. Grant 2003 81
22. 394 2/8 Beaver, UT Garry D. Matson Garry D. Matson 2005 81
23. 394 1/8 Wayne, UT Victor K. Jones Victor K. Jones 2005 87
24. 394 Douglas, CO John T. McCord John T. McCord 2002 89
25. 393 4/8 Blaine, ID Darren K. Spiers Darren K. Spiers 2000 93
26. 393 2/8 Sanders, MT Kenneth R. Groh Kenneth R. Groh 2000 95
27. 392 7/8 Cibola, NM Paul L. Cool Paul L. Cool 2005 102
28. 392 6/8 Yellowstone, MT Walter A.Tate Walter A.Tate 2006 103
29. 392 4/8 Gallatin, MT Christopher R. Hann Christopher R. Hann 2000 105
30. 392 White Pine, NV Thomas M. Brunson Thomas M. Brunson 2001 111
31. 391 3/8 Navajo, AZ Dennis K. Frandsen Dennis K. Frandsen 2001 120
32. 391 Beaver, UT Aaron W. Cox Aaron W. Cox 2006 123
33. 390 6/8 Cibola, NM Lee A. Schawe Lee A. Schawe 2001 124
34. 390 5/8 Catron, NM Picked Up Robert J. Seeds 2001 128
35. 390 3/8 Sioux, NE Robert L. Marsteller Robert L. Marsteller 2004 129
36. 390 3/8 Garfield, UT K'Dee Gardner K'Dee Gardner 2006 129
37. 389 7/8 Sevier, UT O. Howard Shattuck O. Howard Shattuck 2002 135
38. 389 5/8 White Pine, NV Tim A. Horn Tim A. Horn 2005 138
39. 389 3/8 Modoc, CA Kasey M. Criss Kasey M. Criss 2003 146
40. 389 1/8 Cache, UT Lewis K. Winward Lewis K. Winward 2004 150
41. 389 1/8 Beaver, UT Travis J. Willden Travis J. Willden 2006 150
42. 388 7/8 Golden Valley, MT Janna M. Heiken Janna M. Heiken 2005 154
43. 388 5/8 Larimer, CO Mark J. Unger Mark J. Unger 2004 158
44. 388 4/8 Elko, NV John Hildebrand John Hildebrand 2004 159
45. 387 6/8 Garfield, UT Clint Fullmer Clint Fullmer 2005 174
46. 387 3/8 Mohave, AZ Dorothy J. Harber Dorothy J. Harber 2004 184
47. 386 5/8 Goshen, WY David A. Stenson David A. Stenson 2005 196
48. 386 2/8 Lincoln, NV Daniel L. Evans Daniel L. Evans 2005 203
49. 386 2/8 White Pine, NV Edward M. Neilsen Edward M. Neilsen 2005 203
50. 386 San Juan, UT Tim C. Simonsen Tim C. Simonsen 2006 212

and the nontypicals since 2000:

1. 444 4/8 Coconino, AZ Ronald N. Franklin Ronald N. Franklin 2003 6
2. 442 3/8 Gila, AZ Dan J. Agnew Dan J. Agnew 2001 7
3. 429 6/8 Navajo, AZ Clay R. Heuett Clay R. Heuett 2003 14
4. 426 Ribstone Creek, AB Hubert L. Rieland Hubert L. Rieland 2005 *
5. 424 6/8 Lincoln, NV Cindy S. Marques Cindy S. Marques 2002 *
6. 422 4/8 Battle River, AB Brent A. Kuntz Brent A. Kuntz 2002 *
7. 421 7/8 Kittitas, WA Jeffery G. Thorpe Jeffery G. Thorpe 2003 19
8. 420 4/8 Kern, CA Brad Peters Brad Peters 2000 20
9. 417 1/8 Apache, AZ Lynn H. Stinson Lynn H. Stinson 2004 23
10. 416 5/8 Cibola, NM Jack Mettler Jack Mettler 2001 25
11. 415 6/8 Nye, NV Ted L. Wehking Ted L. Wehking 2005 27
12. 414 6/8 Navajo, AZ James M. Cardwell James M. Cardwell 2001 31
13. 413 5/8 Kern, CA Raymond G. Schaeffer Raymond G. Schaeffer 2003 36
14. 413 2/8 Coconino, AZ Erik W. Swanson Erik W. Swanson 2001 37
15. 412 Utah, UT Jeffrey L. Didericksen Jeffrey L. Didericksen 2002 40
16. 411 2/8 Coconino, AZ Mike J. Drake Mike J. Drake 2005 42
17. 410 3/8 Hill, MT Brendan V. Burns Brendan V. Burns 2000 44
18. 409 7/8 White Pine, NV Randall S. Ulmer Randall S. Ulmer 2003 47
19. 409 6/8 Garfield, MT Dennis R. Mangold Dennis R. Mangold 2003 48
20. 409 3/8 Coconino, AZ Brent V. Trumbo Brent V. Trumbo 2000 49
21. 409 2/8 Coconino, AZ Robert D. Hartwig Robert D. Hartwig 2004 50
22. 408 6/8 Gila, AZ Kevin L. Christianson Kevin L. Christianson 2004 51
23. 407 2/8 Apache, AZ Jay A. Kellett Jay A. Kellett 2001 60
24. 406 7/8 Elko, NV Jeffrey K. Rahbeck Jeffrey K. Rahbeck 2003 61
25. 406 3/8 Beaver, UT Donald J. Willden Donald J. Willden 2003 66
26. 405 5/8 Gila, AZ R.J. Rick Smith R.J. Rick Smith 2003 69
27. 404 6/8 Juab, UT David L. Naylor David L. Naylor 2003 73
28. 404 6/8 Cibola, NM Lacy J. Harber Lacy J. Harber 2005 73
29. 404 5/8 Navajo, AZ Richard Corbett Richard Corbett 2004 75
30. 404 2/8 Modoc, CA Ron L. Beggs Ron L. Beggs 2004 77
31. 404 Elko, NV Mike D. Popejoy Mike D. Popejoy 2005 80
32. 403 2/8 Piute, UT Greg Holman Greg Holman 2006 87
33. 403 Park, MT Casey E. Turner Casey E. Turner 2003 90
34. 401 7/8 Fergus, MT Raymond J. Koch Raymond J. Koch 2000 98
35. 401 4/8 Apache, AZ Thomas D. Friedkin Thomas D. Friedkin 2005 102
36. 400 6/8 Mesa, CO Leland J. Cox Leland J. Cox 2003 107
37. 400 2/8 Elk, PA Barry L. Klusewitz Barry L. Klusewitz 2005 113
38. 399 6/8 White Pine, NV Stephanie C. Hull Stephanie C. Hull 2000 118
39. 399 3/8 Navajo, AZ Marvin Brawley, Jr. Pat E. Powell 2003 119
40. 399 2/8 Emery, UT Todd Pedersen Todd Pedersen 2006 120
41. 398 2/8 Navajo, AZ Glen W. Morgan Glen W. Morgan 2005 125
42. 398 White Pine, NV James R. Anderson III James R. Anderson III 2005 128
43. 397 5/8 Sierra, NM Neil L. Lawson Neil L. Lawson 2005 130
44. 396 4/8 Tooele, UT Jess Scott Jess Scott 2003 135
45. 395 Unknown Unknown Cabela's, Inc. 2001 143
46. 394 4/8 Greenlee, AZ Picked Up Jaclyn M. Serfass 2002 145
47. 394 4/8 Sandridge, MB Joel Kayer Joel Kayer 2003 145
48. 394 2/8 Natrona, WY Steve R. Lamb Steve R. Lamb 2006 151
49. 394 1/8 Lincoln, NV Russell A. Young Russell A. Young 2003 152
50. 393 7/8 Garfield, UT Paul R. Jibson Paul R. Jibson 2006 154

You will notice several well known bulls from last year are not on the list.

The new Utah state record bull is not on there, I am guessing it is because it will be panel scored before offical entry. I know of two other Garfiled County bulls taken in that time frame not entered. I am guessing there are many more.

I find it interesting how Utah has taking over on the typical list, but not the non-typical, where Arizona is still top dog. Any theories?

Thanks for the list dahlmer.

PRO

Nice work dahlmer!
If i counted right, Utah has 18 Typ's in the top 50 since 2000, and yes, this doesn't list up to '06 where many more are undoubtedly added from all states. In looking at the non-typ section, AZ has the brundt of the list. But that doesn't surprise me, they grow some narly looking bulls over there....and i want one!! [-o<
But as for me, the biggest bull i have ever laid my eyes on was in Nevada on the Shell Creek range.....i still have nightmares over that bad boy!!

NOW THATS A LIST!! thanks Dahlmer!!
i see that Dan Agnew is 4 on typical and 2 on non-typical, both from gila arizona, does anyone know if he's hunting on public ground? or is he going to the reservation and hunting? just wondering surely he aint drawing to killer tags that close to eachother ---is he??
anyway, great info right there, and i'll still take a tag in which ever one they will acually let me have one!
hey pro, how many yrs till you think you could draw a tag?? just curiose, i have just a couple more-----maybe 10!! ](*,) ](*,)

Agnew hunts the San Carlos every year.

killerbee, I was expecting to draw in 2007, so I will be shocked if I don't next year. I am putting in for archery on one of the, IMHO, top two or three units in Utah.

PRO

too cool! that would be great to draw one of those tags. i'm sure we'll be reading about it eventually.

Very nice list from everyone, but records are to be broke. All I have to say is hopefully I will be lucky enough to draw a tag, i f so whatch out cause I will be on that list!!! HE [-o<
Congarats to all them for them nice animals havested.

Skull Krazy, I am going to start putting in out were you guide so I can get on that list!!!!!!! :-$ =D> [-o<

Ok wildantlerman, it's a deal!! :222
I know where a big fat spike is...they taste MUCH better than some big old bull....they taste like the bottom of my Danners!! :thumb

"9er" wrote:Pro got me thinking with his thread about "trohpy size". what do you think the average score is of the elk taken off of utahs LE hunts?

We all hear about the biggest elk taken each year, but that is the best of the best, what about those that kill 330 archery bulls, are those still considered trophys even though they were killed on a unit where multiple 400 bulls were killed?

9er

I think any bull taken with a bow is a trophy just my ($$) ($$)

Thanks Skull Krazy I appreciate that, I would be satified with a spike even if I drew the sporstmans tag. HeHE ](*,) :))

ive understood that alot of people who draw le's shoot the frist bull they see even rag horns alot of people dont hold out for true trophies lie 300+ ers most people are just happy getting an elk kinda dumb to wait that long to shoot a raghorn but i guess it leaves bigger ones for all of us huh

There was a 396 typical killed with a bow in Washington County, Utah last fall too.

I know a guy in wasatch county that said there is no reason to kill a bull under 380 in the wallsburg area he drew last year and came home with any guesses.... a 320 bull this is nothing against him he scouted and hunted hard, I mean this guy lives on the mountain and passed up many bulls as big as what he had taken. the same with another guy I work with. as for average I'd say on a do it yourself hunt 300 to 330 in my opinion.You gotta remember you only hear about the big ones.