utah proposed shed hunting change
The Ox
11/2/08 12:16pm
Gathering shed antlers
The antlers of deer, elk and moose drop off their heads each winter. The animals then grow a new set of antlers in the summer.
The time when the animals are shedding their antlers February through April is the most stressful time of the year for them. They're at the tail end of a long winter. The habitat in their low-elevation wintering areas is also wet and in delicate shape.
To protect animals and their habitat in northern Utah, shed antler gathering has not been allowed in that part of the state from February through mid-April for the past few years.
Across the rest of Utah, shed antlers could be gathered anytime of the year.
To protect all of Utah's deer, elk, moose, and the habitat they rely on, the DWR is proposing the following for 2009:
Before gathering shed antlers anywhere in Utah between Feb. 1 and April 15, you would first have to complete a free online shed antler gathering course.
The course would give you information about deer, elk and moose and the condition the animals are in in late winter and early spring. The course would also teach you how delicate the animals' habitat is and how easily it can be damaged.
After providing this background, the course would give you tips and advice that would help you gather antlers without stressing the animals and damaging their habitat.
Once you completed the course, you'd receive a course completion certificate. You'd be required to carry the certificate with you while you were gathering antlers.
Shed antler gathering would be allowed in northern Utah, and across the rest of Utah, throughout the year.
If you gathered antlers after April 15, you would not be required to complete the shed antler gathering course.
#-o they are getting ridiculous im not taking a class and carrying a permit to shed hunt they are just trying to find more ways to make money off of us. soon you will have to buy a permit to shed hunt. im so frustrated after reading this !!!!!
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the habitat is not as delicate as they say! we ride 4w heelrs across our ranch searching for cattle fixin fence etc.....and you cant tell where we rode! it does no damage! i think the people in the dwr and the people proposing this stuff are enviromentalists. this is going to damn far!
The antlers of deer, elk and moose drop off their heads each winter. The animals then grow a new set of antlers in the summer.
The time when the animals are shedding their antlers February through April is the most stressful time of the year for them. They're at the tail end of a long winter. The habitat in their low-elevation wintering areas is also wet and in delicate shape.
To protect animals and their habitat in northern Utah, shed antler gathering has not been allowed in that part of the state from February through mid-April for the past few years.
Across the rest of Utah, shed antlers could be gathered anytime of the year.
To protect all of Utah's deer, elk, moose, and the habitat they rely on, the DWR is proposing the following for 2009:
Before gathering shed antlers anywhere in Utah between Feb. 1 and April 15, you would first have to complete a free online shed antler gathering course.
The course would give you information about deer, elk and moose and the condition the animals are in in late winter and early spring. The course would also teach you how delicate the animals' habitat is and how easily it can be damaged.
After providing this background, the course would give you tips and advice that would help you gather antlers without stressing the animals and damaging their habitat.
Once you completed the course, you'd receive a course completion certificate. You'd be required to carry the certificate with you while you were gathering antlers.
Shed antler gathering would be allowed in northern Utah, and across the rest of Utah, throughout the year.
If you gathered antlers after April 15, you would not be required to complete the shed antler gathering course.
#-o they are getting ridiculous im not taking a class and carrying a permit to shed hunt they are just trying to find more ways to make money off of us. soon you will have to buy a permit to shed hunt. im so frustrated after reading this !!!!!
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the habitat is not as delicate as they say! we ride 4w heelrs across our ranch searching for cattle fixin fence etc.....and you cant tell where we rode! it does no damage! i think the people in the dwr and the people proposing this stuff are enviromentalists. this is going to damn far!
28,731
Skull Krazy sat on the committee who drafted this recommendation, and I can assure you he is no environmentalist. In fact, he is guiding a couple of clients in SW Colorado right now hunting big mulies.
The biggest motivating factor for this recommendation was minimized pressure on deer/elk during the most critical time of year for their survival and the survival of the new litters being born later that year. If one is so wrapped up in themselves they are unwilling to help the critters they claim to hunt, then they ought not complain about low deer/elk numbers EVER!
Making people aware of the situation will help with some people to make things easier on the animals at that time of the year. I just wish that everybody would work on not stressing the animals at that point but it seems that some people just don't care and continue to push and stress these animals just for their sheds. :>/
the big deal is ...im sick of govt and agencies trying to control everything we do! before long your gonna have to buy a permit to shed hunt! some things go a bit to far and i dont think i should need a permit to shed hunt! if your worried about damaged habitat how about the housing subdivisons in areas animals winter and have for decades!that is 100s of times more damaging than an atv going across a patch of useless over populated sage brush! if you wanna increase winter feed for animals how about spiking some of the sage brush fields that over crowd grass!!!! or the millions of juniper trees which should be classified as a noxious weed! crowding out the grass and sucking up the water run off! every year! these things cause less grass and plant growth than atvs driving around. the millions of dollars spent stopping wildfires in areas that would do more good than harm( where we run cattle there is not a structure worht saving for 50 miles in any direction ) the money could be spent on spiking sage brush and junipers! instead of putting out helpful fires!we plowed up several hundred acres of sage brush, planted native grases in that area and it is some of the best unirragated feed around and the elk that have started coming to the area now is insane we have had 30- 40 head of elk summer on that property, before it used to be lucky to see very many elk right there, not to mention the herd of mustnags that live on it! so the real problem lies not in atvs driving over grass but other noxious weeds that over crowd and kill off any chances for grass to grow
Second, if people would police themselves and STAY OUT OF CRITICAL AREAS DURING CRITICAL TIMES, ESPECIALLY ON ATV'S the DWR wouldn't have to make these kind of restrictions. Just because homes are taking away critical winter range does not mean you should be able to harass wildlife during these months looking for sheds. Is a stupid antler more important than having more deer to hunt? In another thread you are WHINING about the lack of big bucks where you hunt, and yet here you are WHINING because you won't be able to harass deer during a few short months of the year which will INCREASE the number of deer available to hunt. Nonsensical at best!
You are correct, the loss of quality feed is hurting deer, but luckily Utah is reversing this trend more than any other western state by improving/keeping habitat for deer. Doing that AND minimizing the contact between man and deer during critical times is crucial to allow our deer herd to grow and thrive.
i dont harass any wildlife! they bed in the trees and i stay down on the sage brush flats picking up sheds! i dont even see deer when i shed hunt!
you seem to be for changing to better the deer herds, but since they want to change something in the shed season and require a short little free test online before you can shed hunt for a 4 month period. it may not affect the deer were you shed hunt but i know of many places that ive shed hunted and there are deer still in that area.
I was hunting in a controlled hunting unit in Idaho this year. The small, back-country road I took into the Salmon River breaks was only 11 miles long yet was posted in at least 8 different spots "Motorized vehicles not authorized off established road." My brother and I were the ONLY hunters in that valley that weekend yet I saw 4 wheeler tracks ALL OVER the lower hillsides. It was very obvious that judging by the vegetation/soil in these tracks, they were made in the late spring. It was also obvious by the "grid pattern" made by these tracks that they were hunting SOMETHING. I was not there but I've been around the block a few times and I can say with a fair amount of certainty that they were shed hunting. Now, this was approximately 6 months later and the tracks were still VERY EVIDENT. IMO, it looked ugly and scared the land. Additionally, the area is a major wintering ground for both deer and elk and I can only imagine how many animals, already tired and weary from last year's winter (which was pretty bad snow-wise), were chased outta there by these folks.
Personally, I like what Utah is doing here and wish the two states I hunt in, WA and ID, would do the same. Keeping folks out of wintering grounds and allowing the wildlife to recover from the harsh winters peacefully is a great idea IMO. I'm not sure where it hurts folks that want to collect shed antlers either.
I do want to point out before folks start flaming this that I am NOT lumping shed hunters with folks that disobey motorized vehicle regulations. I am aware that not all shed hunters utilize ATVs and that I have no proof that the tracks that I refered to were made by shed hunters. I am just posting my thoughts on the two subjects since they seem to have been lumped together in this thread.
LMAO!!!
Give up Cody, don't waste anymore energy, he obvioulsy isn't getiing it.
Ox-
I'm terribly sorry that you have to take 20 minutes out of your presious time to take a course that may "educate" you a little bit and help protect YOUR resource.
Keep in mind that you have been getting a "freebie" on being able to collect these sheds.
You have to obtain a permit for taking ANY "wildlife or their parts"....as stated in the proclomation...........Antlers are "parts".
And if you'd open your mind a little bit and see that these new regulations are to target the "unethical" behavoir during these crital times for our wildlife, you MAY be able to condone these laws a little bit and thank us for them so that YOU can still enjoy your sport for many years to come.
If you are such a great sportsman and shed hunting enthusiest like your claiming, embrace this instead of fighting it, it's there for YOU!!
OR.......you can bash it, fight it, cuss it and be a lawbreaker like the many out there that have caused this, and help take away the sport all together, it's your choice.
Canyonhunter, this law/regulation is meant for all shed hunters.
Thanks a ton for the positive quote, you bring a good point to the forum.
One of the other "issues" that was talked about when we were drafting this proposal was the law enforcement, and it WILL get tighter and more strict.
Being in the shed business, i told the committee that the fines are much lower than the cost of a descent set of sheds. They agreed and fines are going up significantly.
Freebie??? if its layin on the ground it is no longer part of that deer.. thats why it is illegal to pick up skulls because it could have been poached...obviously sheds are not from poached deer so thats why its free. if you feel like you should pay to shed hunt send in a donation for shed hunting dont bring the fee to us.
anyway im glad we have individuals that care enough to work hard to come up with plans to help, but i just disagree having to have a certificate to hunt sheds. It wont be long before they decide to charge for the course or permit. it gives them an open door invitation to charge us for something that should be free! that is why i disagree! i do agree some people do tear stuff up with there four wheelers. i dont care if four wheelers are not allowed off the road to shed hunt. however they should not be banned fully we often use our four wheelers for ranching purposes. and its faster and easier and more efficient to use them. we dont peel out or ruin things when we drive em off road.
i think anyone that thinks this is the solution to greatly improve the herd is nuts its like shooting a bb gun at a grizzly bear. the real problem lies in mis managed range. the blm and state needs to allow wildfires to burn that have no threat to immediate structures. the price to fight these fires is astronomical! they could rebuild a lot of houses for the prcie they spend to save one!and that money they dont spend could go to improving the range! now if a whole community is in danger than yes i agree, but often times ouut near us they put out a lightning stikethat will do more good than harm with a entire crew of fire fighters there are no residencies even close to these fires im talking 50 miles in all direction or more! the amount of feed that will come from these burns is tremendous! and the money that is saved letting these fires burn, can go to flying seed over these burns and spiking juniper and sage brush stands!! back in the seventies when the fires burned, the junipers where not so overcrowding the deer herd up there was awesome! now days if you see a deer you are doing great! seriously! ive spent a lot of time on horseback up there and i literally have seen 8-10 deer in the last 7 years. the junipers are so thick and so over populated nothing can grow, and where they are thick and plentiful not only does it do that but alot of the watershed is lost to the junipers, they suck up so much water its sick! there for no water or sun to grass and other feed and, less water to natural springs and such.
anyway enough said about this thread! and thanks for having a voice to help! o and ya it is difficult for me to obtain the course because i dont have the net i only can get on every couple weeks when i come to my paretns house.i oftne dont have a lot of time on the net because i am at the ranch, and i know a lot of people that dont have the net that will have a problem as well. its just a huge inconvience for a very little gain! and if this proposal goes through than hopefully i am wrong and it benefits greatly and not just an invitaion to charge us to shed hunt.
Thank the people causing this, don't publicly crucify us that are trying to save YOUR sport, it makes you look guilty of some of these issues.
And yes Ox....the "antlers that are lying on the ground" are STILL, and i quote, "BIG GAME ANIMALS OR THEIR PARTS".
If you don't want to beleive me on this, get caught picking one up within the designated dates outlined in the forthcoming proclomation without your proof of your educational course and see what happens.
And if you don't abide by these laws (like all laws) you'll be guilty of making them even tighter in the future.
NOONE is trying to punish you Ox, we are only trying to educate the enthusiests who participate in the sport of shed hunting to be aware of the possible damage you CAN cause during this time of year by neglegence.
Open your mind a little.
trying to save our sport? sounds like giving them an open door invite to charge us in the future to do a sport that is free!so saving? hardly!the next person to come along is gonna say hey look we can change this rule a bit and charge them for this and make more money .... im a very law abiding person...thats why this ticks me off! i already thanked you for making an effort to help but you just continue to be an A**!!!!! im sorry not everyone supports your idea get over it, alot of people are not going too!! i have my opinion and i expressed it!
SEcond! they are no longer part of that animal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if they were still connected to that animal thats different, hence the no picking up skulls! these are naturally fallen off antlers that dont belong to that deer or elk anymore!!!!!
the bg animals or there parts law is to protect from poaching not picking up their antlers that have naturally fallen off, and ya maybe you can find a skull that the animal died of natural causes but you cant prove that like you can a shed!
And i dont know if the people on this site actually do agree or are just too nice to disagree since your a good guy and they like ya. i wonder what they would say if the writers of this were not mm members.
ive talked to a lot of people around here about this and they are as ticked off as me! its just not right to need a permit for shed hunting.
Do your homework before fighting me, your only looking like a fool.
Nuf said. :>/
Get over yourself Ox, it's a law starting in '09, like it or not.
You drew first blood pal....not me.
And BTW....YOU are the only person on at least 4 different forums that is acting this way about this topic.
Go ahead, fight the new change and dispute it all you want, that's your choice and you can live with the consequences if you get caught.
It blows my mind that you are being so anal about taking a 20 minute online course.
No computer? looks to me like you have access to one....
I don't like having to take time out of MY day to go to the DMV to renew my DL and take a LONG driving test when i have been driving for 27 years.......but i do.
It's a FREE ethics and habitat destruction course for heavens sake, go learn something you MAY or may NOT already know!!!
we occaisionally find sheds while moving cows on horse and its people taht dont shed hunt often that find them they will have to come take a course to pick up a shed they stumble upon or be fined... great freakin idea. there we go penalizing people that dont need it ridiculous!
This is about being a good steward over the animals we ALL love and enjoy seeing/hunting. The 'shed craze' as gotten to the point where people ARE doing stupid things to obtain them. It has had negative impacts on the deer/elk herds. In a time where deer/elk are seeing pressure year round, is it any wonder they struggle the way they do? We as sportsmen are entrusted with doing what we can to help the animals we love to hunt/observe. If EDUCATING ourselves on how our actions can/do have unintended impacts on wildlife helps grow the herds, is it worth it to you? It sure is to me.
Taking an ATV off the road on public land, unless you are in an specifically approved off road area, ALWAYS has bad ramifications.
Ox, both Skull Krazy and yourself have always seemed to be two pretty decent guys over the years here at MuleyMadness. I can see that this is a subject that you are rather passionate about but this is not the way to get your voice heard.
I want to start by saying (and I posted this earlier in this thread) that although I do not live in Utah I think this is a GREAT idea and really wish more western states would follow Utah's lead in this arena. The last thing the deer and elk need after a long, hard winter is a lot of additional pressure on them during the "shed season" whether it's by ATVs or folks on foot IMHO.
Secondly, Skull Krazy is 100% correct as far as the "parts" question goes. It does not matter one bit whether the antler was shed naturally or not, it is still regarded as part of the animal. Yes, it is a FORMER part of the animal, but still a part in the eyes of the regs/law.
I did have a question: Ox, did you voice your concerns and/or displeasure with the measure at one of the meetings? Have you written your thoughts down and delivered it to your Game Department? If you are indeed this upset about this change you need to do this..and do it the right way. Ranting and Raving will do you no good. Construct your thoughts in an organized manner and bring solutions to your concerns. Voicing possible problems without also giving a possible solution will also do you no good.
Again, both you and Skull Krazy are very valuable members of this site. Please do not continue the bitter "back and forth" here on the public forum. If you must continue this rather rediculous "tennis match" please do so via Private Message.
Thank you for calming down a little, i will follow suit.
Keep in mind that you are preaching to the choir about your agreement that there are unlawful and wildlife harrassers out there. We (the entire committee) already know this and this is why SOME laws have to be put into place before it gets anymore out of control thatn it already has become.
Unfortuntaly Ox, laws DO only seem to punish the "good people", but you simply can't be looking at it that way. I know i am a good driver, no accidents or speeding tickets in 27 years, but guess what.....i have to abide by the laws set forth BECAUSE OF the careless ones out there.
They aren't actually trying to punish ME, they are protecting me from careless drivers.
And to educate you about who i am and what i stand for as far as being a part of this committee?
I am an avid shed hunter, have been for 20 years. I also own a reproduction skull business (Skull Krazy) to mount both deer and elk sheds onto to make European mounts of the sheds.
I am also a big game hunting guide and have worked for one of the biggest, most respected and reputable outfitters in the western United States for over 14 consecutive years.
If all that makes me an "Enviromentalist" then so be it....it also means i care about my sport and fragile resources that can be stripped away in a heartbeat by neglegent people if i don't stand up for what i beleive.
As for the "Shed Antler Committee" members? 4 of us are avid shedhunters, one is the head of the Mule Deer Foundation, two are private landowners (ranchers) and three are wildlife officers, one of which is the lead dog of wildlife law enforcement. Each and every one of us enjoy shed hunting and are only trying to protect "OUR SPORT" and refuse to sit by and let it get even more out of control than it's already getting by people who DON'T care.
Thank you for taking the time to read all of that whether you agree or disagree.....i am going outside to enjoy my day. :)
last year i was watching some pretty decent bucks/bulls. as soon as the sheds started hitting the ground i started seeing a few people in there picking them up!! All i could do was sit there in disbelief. Being the law abidding citizen i am, i never ONCE picked a shed up, even though i had a few "spotted" out
I did end up calling the DWR on the "shed poachers" and hopefully they got the book.
IMHO, this is the best way to handle this situation, now if we can all just enforce each other!!
SKull, any word on how they gonna enforce this?
9er
UNFORTUNATELY and like all our laws, there are WAY too few officers in the field to catch and enforce everyone and everything, it's going to be up to "US" to do more policing amongst ourselves. If you see someone breaking a law, get all the information you can and call it in.
These laws aren't going to be a "fix all", but it's a step in the right direction versus sitting by and doing nothing.
It is amazing how many people don't even think about the impact shed hunting has on our animals, and when i have had talked to people about it, the response usually goes something like this-
"Really? I hadn't even thought about the doe's being pregnant in march and april"....among other statements and issues we're trying to address.
And THIS is exactly what the ethics and habitat destruction course is going to teach people so they have a better understanding of the possible negative impact shed hunting CAN have on our wildlife.
Simply put.....we are NOT trying to keep people from shed hunting at all, just tyring to raise an awareness, that's all.
Let's set a good example for other western states that are watching us. Trust me, they ARE watching and taking notes on our success and failures, and "failure" is to do nothing.
the envirometalist thing is obviously not true however the way i read the document seemed very enviromentally written.. i was very heated and needed to blow some smoke on the issue i am still quite frustrated with it. however if i lived up north id be all for it as well... and i dont know the situation up there.
skull like i said before thanks for caring enough and spending time to try to help with the situatuion.
As for riding your atv through brush/vegetation, I am assuming ox is talking about on private land, at least i hope so. One thing you may be overlooking is that if one person goes off road and leaves a track, it is likely another rider will follow the track, next thing you know there is a new trail adding to the negative impact on wildlife. Let's do our part as stewards and sportsmen, it actually irks me that we need a committee come up with something that should be taken care of by individuals simply from using common sense. It is people acting irresponsible that has lead to this recommendation from the committee. I doubt anyone on the committee 'enjoyed' drafting this, and they did so only because people ignoring common sense gave them little other options.
Noone wants to ban shed hunting and noones wanting to make laws so the state can capitalize from it.
Here's another little food for thought about the cost of the permit which by the way is FREE-
There are going to be a significant cost associated with these new laws.
Additional enforcement isn't free and the new signs that are being made up to place on the WMA areas aren't going to be cheap either, and then there's the cost of setting up, maintaining and monitoring the online course and making, printing the permits themselves.
And for the record.........we the committee voted FOR a $5 fee so these things could be paid for through the people that will use them, but the RAC voted it down knowing the public would go ballistic over $5.........seems they were right. ](*,)
Now the money will have to come from another entity. But in the end, when it got tossed BACK to the committee, we agreed on it as a whole to get this thing rolling.
Now IF the cost is higher than expected, we MAY see a small fee in the future to cover the cost, but the state already assured us they would "earmark" those funds to STAY in the DWR's funds, and NOT going into the general fund like the hunting permits do. :thumb
Don't let that scare you though, it was only "talk" and tossed around "just in case".
But i won't be clenching my teeth while doing it because even though i may already be aware of most the issues shed hunters CAN cause, i know i'll have a part in helping educate a few that may not.
I'm not above anyone else that hunts sheds just because i sit on the committee either, i have to abide by my own rules, and i will.
Digger-
The State is not trying to "take away your loss of freedom", they are trying to regulate the careless people that are.
Man, ignorance sure is bliss!!
And you wonder why there are biologists and law enforecement? lol
This is EXACTLY why we are having the course put into place!! ](*,)
There isn't one.
You can hunt sheds all year long, but from Jan thru may, you must show proof of the online course being taken, simple as that.
You want to pick up a shed while rabbit hunting? Go ahead, you already stated you'll take the course regardless....so your good to go! =D>
And thanks for being positive about this!!! =D>
You really think we all got together to find a way to hit our honey holes earlier?
I can't beleive i even replied to this!! zzz
Think about it dig....now YOU can hunt your northern sheds without having to break a law by going in early.......i'll stay down in central and south where i have been going all these years.
As for the other committee members, more than half don't even hunt sheds and 3 of them are DWR law offers!
Don't bother thanking us that you can go in as early as you'd like in YOUR unit!! :-$
can i thank you for your work on this!!
Im sure you took time away from work/family for the benefit if the deer/elk herds 10sign: 10sign:
i for one am happy it passed, and yes i do hunt the northern area, but know i actually might find something, unlike that past few years when the law breaking dumb asses would pick them up anyway
thanks again
9er
We want your feedback on these changes as well, and PLEASE "police yourselves" and turn in the law breakers!!
When you take your online course, give me feed back on it to pass along to the committee so we can tweak it if needed. :thumb
Ummmmmm, where did i accuse YOU of breaking any laws?
Good luck to you regardless.
Im really not too happy in taking a course to pick up sheds expecially when they are on my own property and public ground.
Hey Digger-- Long time no see... By the way..Stay off my northern unit.. :))
We never did have our biggest shed contest last year.. Shall we start again??