What do you consider a 'trophy' bull?

I saw a picture posted by jpscouting showing a 330 class bull, it got me thinking about how many people would be happy with a bull of that size, and how many feel that is too small? Please clarify what state you are from and what your 'best' bull to date is. This is just for curiousity purposes. My best bull to date is a 371 bull taken under AR301 in 2003 here in Utah with my trusty ol' Hoyt.

PRO
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I haven't killed a big bull in Utah yet, but I figure that I have 40 more years of hunting left in this ol' body of mine, and when I do draw. I hope that I will be able to tell the difference between a 330 and a 350 bull.

I think that is the biggest problem is that the majority of elk hunters don't the difference between a 330 and a 370 bull.
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I havent killed a BIG bull in Utah either...But, after hunting wiht PRO a few years(18), I think I know what a big one looks like and want to arrow something bigger then 380. :arrow
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MuleyMadness
Mine first and only Elk has never been score, just a decent 5x6.

I was going to vote 360, but you didn't give me that option. :)

So I went with 350 on my score.

From Utah, not sure I'll ever get another tag for Utah though.
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killerbee
this is a wide variety on where your from or where you are hunting at. i hunt mostly general archery hunts in oregon and a 315+ bull is a true trophy. there are bigger bulls killed, my buddy just killed the state record bull last year that grossed 387 and change. but i'm talking overall average. but on say your guyses utah hunts that bull would get made fun of if you shot it on the trophy hunts.
i voted 350 cause no matter what hunt you draw you cant be to upset shooting that bull.
Where we were in new mexico a 320 bull is where your getting into the bigger bulls. south of there your back up in the 350 + range
Some hunts in Arizona and utah you really try and hold off for a 375 bull.so i think it just highly depends on where your hunting and what type of hunt it is.
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proutdoors
Follow up question, how many of you could tell the size of a bull standing at 200 yards? I am just curious since I am guilty of being inches obsessed. I can count on one hand the people I know who can score a bull within 10 inches consistently in the short time given to make the choice to shoot or not. How many would just look for the 'wall factor', meaning it would look could on my wall? Or is everyone as sick as me, having tunnel vision?

PRO
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killerbee
i've guided for a long time and you'd better know how when someone gives you 5000$ and says they want a bull that at least scores------? [some number] You can have a very upset hunter if you tell him it will score it and he shoots and it dont score what you said. it takes seeing alot of bulls and putting a tap on alot of bulls. another thing is i notice most of the time the guy who is the first to throw out scores on a bull usually has no clue what he's saying and for the most part makeing a good guess. just my opinion.
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southwind
I have a different view on this especially since in a lot of areas there are no 350 bulls. I think "Trophy" is different than a "Book" animal. I voted for 300 since that was the lowest score but to me any mature 6 point is a trophy animal. If I had to attach a score to it I think it would be that 300 6x6 bench mark.

I also believe the trophy is in the eyes of the beholder. I think we deminish the animal/trophy status by getting too hung up on score. There is nothing wrong with thinking score but I think we can put way too much into that and get lost in score over quality of the hunt and a great representation of an animal.

Do I want that huge high scoring animal? Yes, but I am not going to base my status of trophy on score alone. ($$)

As far as scoring on the hoof I am not an expert. I look at the daggers (over 12")(#4) and brows (1&2's)to see if they extend out well towards the nose and curl up (12-14"). Those are my first two looks and then if he has a nice whales tail with around 10" on the fifth. Length I like to see extend about half way across the back. Mass can be hard to judge but when you see it you know it. 3rds are normally not too long but after checking the others and you have around 10" there you should be alright.

So if you end up with these lengths coupled with a 48" length and 36 inch max spread and decent mass you should end up around 350. Am I doing o.k. KB?
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every once in a while I get a wild hair and go chase a big bull, what that really means is I don't really need the meat that year so if I get a bull it will have to be a good one.
If I can plan ahead I'll put in for one off the better areas so then I'm looking at 350+.
if I don't plan ahead I hunt my normal area and if I see one 260 and up the lead will fly.
I've had years were I see 2 or 3 bulls a day.
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RooDog
I would be happy with a 350 class bull. My best elk so far is a 5x5, I never have put a tape to him. I mainly hunt for the meat so size don't really matter right now but I sure wouldn't pass on a 350 bull. I'm from Colorado where the bucks are bigger than the bulls. :))

For your follow up question.how many of you could tell the size of a bull standing at 200 yards?
I would have a good idea what he would score but he would be bigger when I got up to him, I seem to guess a bit lower.

I agree with southwind "I also believe the trophy is in the eyes of the beholder. I think we deminish the animal/trophy status by getting too hung up on score. There is nothing wrong with thinking score but I think we can put way too much into that and get lost in score over quality of the hunt and a great representation of an animal. "
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Hiker
I'm also from the "Raghorn" state. I killed the largest bull I've seen while hunting with a bull tag in my pocket.....a 280ish, 6 point. That year I passed on a lot of smaller bulls, waiting and holding out for a decent one, as I had my mind made up on a bull that I could put on my wall. So far I've been blessed with 13 Colorado elk. My family loves to eat elk and if dad doesn't bring home one, I hear about it.
I plan on hunting for elk out of state more in the future and hope to someday draw a Utah LE tag, a good NM tag, WY limited area or a MT tag, where big bulls live and then I'd want to hold out for a 350ish bull. This fall I have a solo, DIY, Wyoming wapiti hunt planned. Hopefully I'll get a crack at a decent bull.
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proutdoors
I used to guide in Colorado, a 280 class bull is very good on most units there, congrats. I would say a 280 bull in the parts of Colorado I am familiar with is comparable with a 380 bull here in Utah. I guided many hunters who shot 240-280 class bulls and to them it was a trophy of a lifetime, course they were all form the eastern half of the country. Alot of them sent the head to the taxidermy shop for a permanent reminder of their exciting trophy hunt. Even though I get paid to find bulls of a certain score here in Utah, I believe that too much is focused on the score of the bull. In Utah what other choice do you have? You wait for 15+ years to draw, are you going to kill a 290 class bull opening morning? Not likely. Yet, how many Utah hunters would/should be happy with a 300-350 class bull?

Good feedback guys, thanks.

PRO
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My first elk was a little 4x4 bull the way i was screaming, you would have thought i killed a 400 class bull. Then the following year i killed a nice 6x6 bul that scored right at 300 and man was i happy with him, he was perfect all around with no broken points.
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proutdoors
Congrats mossy! Nothing wrong with screaming when you kill a 'trophy' elk/deer. That is why we do what we do!

PRO
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I guess i've been spoiled being a guide for one of the biggest outfitters in the western US and slamming big bulls for 13 years...i voted 370" as a "trophy" in my book, especially being from Utah.
But when i think about it, any bull on the ground is considered a "trophy". :thumb
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jpscouting
Being from the same state (Oregon) as Killerbee, I also agree with him that a 315+ bull would be a trophy in this state. I've seen bigger here in Oregon and they are out there, but they are few. But I also agree that the trophy is in the eye of the hunter. I've had clients that have been hunting over 30 years and never had a shot at a 6 point bull. They could shoot a 270 class 6x6 and think that the bull was the biggest thing on earth to them. Good subject, but tough question with a lot of opinions.
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MuleyCrazed
You know, I voted 370 but I will say I shot a 303 bull last year and its a trophy to me. I just think the ultimate would be a 370 class bull. At least thats what I'm going to be looking for now. Last year was also my first bull, so I set the bar kinda high....
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Comm'on guys... do you know how many people would love to hunt elk and never get the chance or do not know how etc? Moving fromthe east coast to Colorado I think any bull "can be" a trophy bull. If you always dreamed of elk and finally get the chance it is not about the number you put on them - its about the magnificent animal. in terms of a trophy for the sake of numbers there is nothing wrong with a typical 260-270. I knew a guy who had a non typical 7x11 with palmated antlers... isn't that a tophy as well?
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The Ox
honestly there are many factors to the trophy size to me but i said 350 that is the magic number to me! i think it al depends on state,draw unit or open, and rifle or bow . but in any draw unit here in utah that i put in for a 350 would be one i would not pass on for sure, but on an open anything legal id shoot!
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NONYA
If I draw the tag on our place i wont consider cuttin a tag on anything less than 350 until the LASt day,if i dont draw ill shoot a spike or cow first opportunity,if im goin horn huntin i want a 350+ bull,anything smaller just isnt very imprssive to me,I have a pile of smaller horned bulls i have shot sittin on top of the cabin,if I shoot a 350 bull its goin on the wall,my biggest so far is 330,its in the pile.
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Show_Me_Your_Rack
one that is dead elk are not trophys they are a losing streak and o yeah DEER HORNS
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ridgetop
I can't safely guess the score within 10 points on ever bull but if I say I saw a bull that will score over 350. Then it will probably score much higher than that. I did see one last year that scored 370+ while hunting and missed 2 bulls over 320. Only to end up with a spike at the end but it has been the best tasting elk ever.
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silvertip-co
6yrs hard work and not much luck have produced no bulls for me but I have had opps. I think a legal bull 330 and over would be a great starter for us. I would like one 400+ before I die. That's all, just ONE.
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IDHunter
Two years ago I moved from Utah to Idaho. In all the years I hunted in Utah, I never once had a chance to shoot a branch antlered bull. The three or four guys that I hunt with from Utah have also never taken a mature bull. The reason, we have never drawn an LE tag, and the general areas are miserable.

Now that I live in Idaho, I have a chance at a 300+ bull every single year. Two years ago on the archery hunt I took a 7x7, and last years archery hunt I shot a 5x5. I also missed a 330+ bull at 15 yards when I hit a tree branch. I had no idea how much fun elk hunting could be until I left the State of Utah!

If I had been asked what a trophy bull was 3 years ago, I would have said 350+, because that's what I was told to expect once I drew a tag. Now I'm starting to realize that any mature bull is a trophy.

Which is more of a trophy, a 300" bull with a bow in a general over the counter area, or a 350” bull with a rifle in the middle of the rut on a premier limited entry unit? What if both bulls are 8 years old? Does the size of an animals rack indicate his intelligence?

My point is that to me a trophy depends on the area I'm hunting. If I'm in Idaho and have a general tag in my pocket, a 300+ bull in a land of 260's is a trophy to be proud of. If I'm on the Dutton with a bull tag in my pocket, and I shoot a 350" bull in the land of 370's, I'm not near as proud.

No one should ever have to make excuses for shooting a 300” or less bull on public land with a general tag. Especially if they can look back on the experience and say that they gave it their all, and accomplished their goal.
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killerbee
well said idhunter! funny when you hunt the real world what a difference it is. and you know what it's still a blast! I would deffinatly like to draw one of those LE hunts once in my life but overall all take the year after year good general hunting i have here in oregon over waiting forever to hunt a good hunt once!
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ridgetop
I agree with you Idhunter but I think your luck with Utah hunting maybe changing for the better this year. Good luck.
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dahlmer
Here you are stirring the pot again Pro. LOL j/k. I think is such an interesting question and for me the answer is it depends. To date...my best bull is a raghorn 5 that I killed my 2nd year hunting elk. After that the areas in Utah I had always hunted were shut down for LE and spike only. To me that bull is a trophy...I had just had a walking cast removed the weekend before and could hardly walk. My dad planted my butt on a hillside maybe 50 yards from the road and told me to sit still. About 1/2 hour later this bull comes trotting up the road behind me. All I could see were his antlers above the oak brush. He finally came out and stood broadside less than a hundred yards away. In my excitement I blew the shot and had to empty my rifle to finish the job.

With a Wasatch tag this year obviously my expectation are far different. I hope to find a 350+ bull which for me represents an excellent bull. We'll see how things pan out. Either way...I don't expect to be disappointed with what I kill and having the ability to carry a gun a pursue a mature bull. I expect it to be a great experience. For me wallability will be the key issue in determining what bull I choose to take.

In answer to your question Pro...I would be hard pressed to tell you what a bull scores 200 yards away...I'd probably get lucky to get within 20" and I think I represent the large majority of hunters out there. I have hunted with several guys with LE tags and quite frankly most the bulls I have seen killed go closer to 300 than 350. I'd guess that no more than 20% of bulls killed in the state of Utah exceed 350...even today and most of those can be viewed on an outfitters website. I saw a statistic recently, but I can't remember the exact numbers, but a very small percentage of hunters have killed a six point bull...for most I think that represents a trophy.
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proutdoors
Dahlmer,I am not trying to stir the pot, just truly curious with how people view elk hunting and what they consider 'trophies' and what they would be happy chasing. I think you know why, but I won't bring that to the surface for now.

Good luck on your OIL elk hunt this fall, I hope you have fun in your pursuit and you have a trophy, whatever you deem worthy, to show for it at the end of the hunt. The offer is still there for you that I have made in the past.

PRO
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dahlmer
I'm just giving you a hard time Pro because I know where you're headed. :-$ I appreciate the offer and intend to take you up on it. My daughters finish up softball this week and then my schedule opens up a lot more. I suspect you get pretty busy once July rolls around so let me know what works for you. Thank again.
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proutdoors
dahlmer, I will try and sneak you in somewhere. Things do get hectic as hunting season gets closer, I have to start patterning the 'shooter' bulls for my clients and get some footage that allows for scoring the bulls before chasing after them. Rough life, chasing "the biggest of the big", and getting paid to do it every fall. :)

PRO
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proutdoors
The poll says roughly 2/3's of us who be happy with a 300-350 class bull. Right were I suspected most to be. Very interesting, lacks for the feedback and responses.

PRO
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IDHunter
I also see that 70% of people think that a bull must score 350 or more to be "big enough." I really doubt that 70% of hunters will ever have a legitimate chance of taking a 350 or better bull. It's sad to me that we're loosing sight of what the hunt is really about. We're looking for 90% success on huge bulls once in our life, rather than working hard and having a chance to take a really good bull several times. Is having one monster bull on your wall worth giving up all of the rest of your hunts for the rest of your life?

The area I hunt in Idaho is over the counter. You could shoot a 350 bull on it if you work hard and have a little luck on your side. You can also hunt it every single year for a decent chance at 260 to 320 inch bull. In a 10 year period, you could potentially shoot 10 bulls with one being a monster, and several more scoring above 300. I'll take that any day of the week over the system in Utah.

What I would like to know is, how many of the 70% that said it must score 350 or more have ever taken a 6x6?
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Show_Me_Your_Rack
I 2nd that the hunt is not about the biggest buck/bull/turkey/or snail that all comes as a bonus but its about out-smarting such an animal i consider a trophy bull to be 385+ typical and 400+ non now i would rather have the chance and blow it on such and animal than to shoot a 365 on the last day!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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It has Been said a trophy is in the eye of the beholder. pro you ask if we could score a bull a 200 yards yes i can. this is what i have killed in utah open bull 383, 371, 354, 346, and 8 between 300 and 330. good post =D>
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ridgetop
I am all for the wall factor! Scoring things is fun to talk about and a good way to visualize something but it all comes down to, if I am willing to put it on the wall then it's worth going after as a trophy.
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proutdoors
Thanks for all the feedback. You all have been very helpful.

PRO
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Pro, you know I love to chase big bulls. I hate getting into the scoring game with clients. I tell them up front, if it looks good to you shoot it. If I do score a bull for somebody I always try to come in low so they are not disappointed. I consider myself pretty accurate on scoring bulls if I have time to look at them. The "trophy" truly is in the eye of the beholder. I have said many times, if you think you will regret shooting it later then don't shoot it now.

Here is a picture of a bull shot in 2005. The hunter was elated. Is this a trophy?

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u175/awholelottabull/P9280039.jpg" alt="" />
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proutdoors
Jim, that bull made the hunter "elated", therefore it is a trophy as far as he is concerned, which is all that matters. The picture would look better if it had the hunter in there instead of your sorry mug. :))

I dare say 90% of the hunters or more outthere would consider that bull a shooter if they walked up on him in the field. That is my point, everyone seems stuck on a certain score because of what they hear on these forums and in hunting mags. Most people have no idea what a 380+ bull looks like unless someone is standing there telling him/her.

Is the Vernon thing still on for next weekend?

PRO
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What do you mean, the hunter IS in the picture. I did everything but pull the trigger on that one. You know what I mean?

If you want to see something that proves your point go over to "the other" forum and check out some of the pictures they say are 380+. Pretty interesting on what people think are 400 class bulls. I've spent 23 years in the guiding/outfitting business and the older I get the less the score means to me. I would rather see a kid shoot his first 250 class bull rather than me take a 400 inch bull. My priorities have definately changed. Don't get me wrong, I would love to take a 400" bull just like the next guy but it's not as important anymore.

I think retirement from this profession is right around the corner but that's another topic for discussion at another time.
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CO, and any animal is a trophy to me, but my ultimate trophy is an all time Book bull or buck, B&C or Pope and young. Not saying Ill ever achieve that but thats what keeps me going back year after year after year.
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My first(and only elk) was a 6x6 bull that scrored 236". We hunted hard in SE Idaho on a covetted tag I drew. Saw lots of elk and got close to a 330" but never got him. I shot this elk at 496 yards with one shot after glassing him and dropped him in his tracks. After a long ten days of glassing and hunting this bull was a great trophy for me. It's what you get out of the hunt, not the size of the bull.
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I AM FROM NEW MEXICO I HAVE TAKEN BULLS FROM A SPIKE TO A NICE HEAVY 7X6. THEY ARE ALL TROPHY BULLS TO ME.
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Every bull I have ever killed has been a trophy to me. Spike raghorn or branch antler - I got my bull off the mountain and it is a trophy. That being said, my uncle killed a 385 and change bull in nevada in 93. Weve had a standing bet since I started elk hunting. Every year I get to elk hunt I lose a bottle of Seagrams 7 because I havent killed a bull bigger than his. One day I am gonna get to make a phone call and say its your turn to buy the whiskey.
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Any bull killed with a bow,limited tag area...330+,general area,anything 5X5 or larger.
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KYLLYR
I think this is a very interesting question. Hunting in Colorado all of my life (only ever hunted Colo), and always hunting OTC units, I think taking a 300+ bull is definitely a trophy with a rifle or a bow. I have taken many elk, everything from a spike to a great bull with both rifle and bow, all of them being trophies to me. Like others have said, the trophy is in the eye of the hunter.

As far as judging them in the field, I do pretty well. As far as the bull you want to harvest you know when he walks out whether or not you want to put him on the wall. "He will take your breath away". :thumb
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Any bull I take with my bow.
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You guys are unbeliveable. the best comment I ever heard about the size of a bull was...

Client: "Is that a trophy bull?"
Guide: "You ever shot an elk?"
Client: "No"
Guide: "Yep, that's a trophy"

I have a 273 6x6 shoulder mounted on the wall. I enjoy it every day and never say, boy wish he was bigger.
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NotEnufTags
Next month will be my first time hunting a bull elk. I will consider any downed 6x6 a trophy. That said, one can always dream of the 350+ bull. The unit has potential for it, not so sure that my skill set does. I'm hoping for a little luck to have a great bull bugle and give up his location. Then move in on him and seal the deal. I expect to have a lot of fun trying. As I said before it'll be my first so no matter what happens it'll be a trophy.
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I think alot of people get caught up in score. In all reality a 330 bull up close and personal is one heck of a creature. I myself have never killed a bull. Been on many hunts helping others kill bulls but i have never been lucky enough to kill one. When it is my turn to any bull that makes the hair on my neck stand and makes me shake like a dog @$*%in razor blades will be a trophy to me.
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Not enuf tags good luck on your hunt. Sniper if youre like me the first bull you take aim at will make your hair stand up and give you a case of the shakes you wont forget. First shot hit him a little far back in the ribs and second hit him high shoulder on my first bull. When I got to my bull I had the shakes so bad I almost lost fingers gutting him. And he was just a 3x6 raghorn. Had to actually put the knife down sit down and drink a bottle of water to calm myself down. You know I think all of the bulls and cows I have killed since then have caused the same reaction. I think if I ever lose that excitement I will have to quit huntin.
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StickFlicker
If you just look at antlers, without regard for where it was taken, I think a 330 bull is the turning point to being a pretty impressive looking mature animal. In Arizona, where I usually hunt, that sized bull is not that uncommon, so 350 might be a good target to try to take a bull that is significantly better than average. That all being said, I'm hoping to take one over 380 next month!!
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killerbee
a "trophy" ( score wise) is any bull taht is large for the area your hunting. in a general OTC hunt here in oregon, if i kill a 300" bull, THATS A TROPHY!

if i draw a great tag in oregon, a 330" bull IS A TROPHY


if i drew the best tag in utah, a 375"+ bull IS A TROPHY


on the other side of it, if a guy also includes that absolute great times with friends and family while hunting, it doesn't matter whats on his head, HE'S A TROPHY

any hunt can be a memory that will last a lifetime, kill or no kill.
if i drew a great tag, and was supposed to kill a huge bull , in utah- and the bull scored 330" vs. going on a general OTC tag in oregon and killing a 280" 6x6- that 280" bull in oregon is a beter "trophy" to me.

i want to do good for my area i'm hunting. the amount of inches dont dictate wether it's a trophy or not, but the hunt and memories do.
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I shot a raghorn once in idaho, that was one of the hardest hunts I had been on over 7 days of hunting, and to this day knowing what I did to get it, to me its a trophy.
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