when is it consider "high fenced hunting"?
killerbee
4/9/09 8:08pm
lots of answers please:
i'll try and just state the facts and let everyone chime in their own opinion. and i wont give mine until alot of guys have reply'd
in oregon we have a hunting unit called"STARKEY EXPERIMENTAL FOREST" this is a state operated place that covers 40sq.miles of ground. it is surrounded by an 8 ft fence on all sides. it is used to experiment on animal reaction to multple elements. hunting pressure,cattle grazing,atv usage,. it is used to help determine effect of clear cutting,over grazing,erotion,etc...
all though it sayd in a link i've added, it's been around since late 80's < again i could be off on that, but one of the articles says a date> oregon dept. of fish and wildlife has transplanted elk out of the unit into other non-fenced units. B&C and P&Y does not allow for tha animals taken in the unit to be added to their books. i've added a couple links for further info.
http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/exforests/starkey/index.shtml
http://www.oregonlive.com/outdoors/index.ssf/2008/11/post_46.html
so my question is this. some guys believe a place this big is not considered a "high fenced hunt" and should be allowed in B&C/P&Y.
SO-- IS IT or IS IT NOT? and should places this big be allowed by B&C / P&Y?
i'll try and just state the facts and let everyone chime in their own opinion. and i wont give mine until alot of guys have reply'd
in oregon we have a hunting unit called"STARKEY EXPERIMENTAL FOREST" this is a state operated place that covers 40sq.miles of ground. it is surrounded by an 8 ft fence on all sides. it is used to experiment on animal reaction to multple elements. hunting pressure,cattle grazing,atv usage,. it is used to help determine effect of clear cutting,over grazing,erotion,etc...
all though it sayd in a link i've added, it's been around since late 80's < again i could be off on that, but one of the articles says a date> oregon dept. of fish and wildlife has transplanted elk out of the unit into other non-fenced units. B&C and P&Y does not allow for tha animals taken in the unit to be added to their books. i've added a couple links for further info.
so my question is this. some guys believe a place this big is not considered a "high fenced hunt" and should be allowed in B&C/P&Y.
SO-- IS IT or IS IT NOT? and should places this big be allowed by B&C / P&Y?
8,138
I am not an expert though...just my opinion.
Oh, and Brian, you asked at the end of your post about P&Y and B&C not accepting the animals. I am assuming that you are refering to released animals, right?
If so, I can see why they would not allow them into the books, even if they were released into an active GMU. The animal was raised in a fenced enclosure....that simple (They were not raised in the wide open wild, did not go through the same trials and tribulations, and did not have to make it through numerous hunting seasons to achieve trophy status). I would liken it to the elk that escaped from the High Fenced operation in southern Idaho a couple years ago. Those animals would never be included, even if they were outside the fence. They were not raised wild, regardless of the size of the enclose. (I know, the ones in Idaho were also thought to have Red Stag genes but it's best example I could come up with)
I'm going to see what I can find.
Now that I think about it, I have lots of questions. (???)
but to clarify your question.----- an official b&c scorer told me that B&C would consider the animals INSIDE the fence. because they allow buffalo from custer park, which is apperantly similer[although i know nothing about custer park-just what i was told] like i said, just so me as the original poster can't be blamed for influencing the thread i'll leave my opinion out and just the facts in.---- but the question is, should B&C/P&Y allow animals INSIDE the unit to be booked[because of the size]
and feel free to click on the links to get a better feel for the unit. it may or may not change an opinion.
"Starkey scientists also discovered that ATVs disrupt wildlife far more than hikers, mountain bikes and horseback riders, he said. That has implications for federal proposals to ban motorized traffic from some public lands, including 4,200 miles of roads that might be placed off-limits to vehicles on northeastern Oregon's Wallowa-Whitman National Forest. "
No kidding? How much does this guy get paid? lol
Killerbee, if I read the arcitcle rite, it's only a spike elk hunt? No, nothing should be recorded a record book.
One of the arcticles also stated that the folks feed the critters all winter. Again, no nothing should be a record. IMHO
Yea, Kinsysdad and I are on the same page. I read both articles and it sounds like a great project...although I could have told them the same thing regarding the motorized vehicles!
Even if the hunt were a branched antler hunt, I couldn't support allowing the animals into the books based on what I read.
Come on Brian, tell us what you think!... lol
(I might need to take a drive down there one of these days and check it out. Sounds really interesting)
no- absolutly not just a spike tag. branch antler bull tag.
in the article it says that the info learned has proved that mature bulls produce stronger calves. this info. has led to alot of the state offering "spike only" hunts. but this hunt is absolutly a branch antlered bull tag. in the past couple yrs on this "state issued" tag there has been a buck killed that was 230"+[ i wanna say 260" but would have to back check] and an archery bull killed 360+.
hawk, for a good reason i need to stay out of the debate. but i'm quite sure you would be able to guess my stance.
also i would like to hear from BOHNTR- [ and i believe maybe stickflicker-there is another official scorer around] on the fact as to B&C /P&Y would consider allowing these to be elligable for the books because of the size of the area. and [so i'm told]because they allow
bison from custer park which is also high fence.
Also do you know if these animals winter and summer within this 40 square mile area naturally? Some animals stay within that range their whole lives. Others travel farther than that.
It would seem to me that if the animals live in this area all there lives and even if the fence was gone it wouldn't really effect them much, if at all. Then to me this IS NOT what I considered a "HIGH FENCED" ranch or hunting. However I can see why these animals would not be accepted into record books and that makes sense to me.
I haven't read the articles or links you posted yet. This is just my initial reaction or questions.
BOHNTR- another part of this post-- it is being compared by some to the CUSTER PARK. i'm told that B&C /P&Y DO allow bison from here and it is in a high fence. i know absolutly nothing about that so i was hopeing maybe you could give a little insite as why they are allowed if the fence is there?
thanks for the reply's. keep them coming!
I'm sure there are plenty of us on here that have covered more than this amount of area on a week long hunt...on foot. I know I have. The way I kind of look at this is that you would be "hunting" lab rats in a large maze. This place was set up to observe wild life in their natural elements.
First, putting up a fence is not a natural element.
Second, providing feed in the winter is not a natural element. (Yes, I know a number of states provide feed on to the herds during the winter, but this is normally during harsh winters on the natural winter range, or rather, the reduced winter range due to development.)
Third, there are ranches in Texas that make this place look tiny that are high fence operations and they are not allowed in B&C/P&Y.
Fourth, (I don't know the first thing about Custer Park) bison were almost wiped off the face of the earth and thus became protected. I don't believe there are big numbers of bison roaming free today, as most are on protected public (National Parks) or private land. Therefore, where hunting is allowed for bison, as the available land is quite small comparetively to other wildlife, I can why some place like Custer Park would be allowed in the books.
I guess what I'm trying to say in a rather long explanation is that, yes, this would be considered a high fence hunt and should not be allowed in either book, although SCI would be more than happy to accept an animal from this place.
The Buffalo are rounded up annually and sorted for auction. I think the only free ranging herd in the US is the Yellowstone herd. And for sure they aren't allowed to go wherever they want to roam. Canada has the Wood Buffalo herds. Those big bull buffalo in Custer are as tame as cattle, you have to drive around them if their on the road. Can't imagine why they would be considered trophies?
I look at the high fence as a piece 5X8 or 4X10 miles or so. I would have no interest in hunting it. And it wouldn't matter if there were trophy size animals in it. I don't think any game animal in a controlled environment should be considered a trophy.