Why the change to overlap the Archery Deer and Elk?

I actually made the proposal, not the DWR, on behalf of UBA. It was done for numerous reasons:

1)The LE archery elk hunters had spike hunters to contend with for the ENTIRE hunt. That was on top of the archery deer hunters, recreational folks, rifle LE hunters scouting for their hunts, grouse hunters. So, we changed the opener to open the same time as the archery deer. The LE rifle hunters have NO other hunts going on while they hunt their OIL tag, muzzy LE elk hunters only have muzzy deer hunters to contend with. We wanted to give the LE archery hunters FIVE DAYS w/o spike hunters chasing the same animals as late into their OIL hunt.

2)I know of very FEW archers who hunt elk and not deer. So, I am not sure that the 'increase' is due to the archery elk opener being changed. Also, this gives those few who archery hunt for deer will have the last FIVE days w/o spike/cow hunters to contend with. The archery deer hunt is still 28 days, the spike/cow hunt is still 23 days.

3)Youth archery elk hunters gain an extra weekend to hunt with this change. Since school starts this week or next week for most youth hunters, this gives them more opportunity w/o taking away any days from other hunters. And, since the future of hunting is dependent on hunter recruitment, I see this as a MAJOR positive way to increase days available for youth to hunt.

4)This had NOTHING to do with money, as not a single 'extra' tag was sold due to this change.

5)It also allows those who like to hunt both deer/elk to do so at the beginning of the hunt instead of five days later.

Does change like this make us ALL hunt a bit different? Yeap, and that is part of hunting, we have to adapt and change in order to keep/improve what we have.

Also remember, many of those you saw archery hunting over the opener are Dedicated Hunters, not 'archers' The deer committee IS addressing this concern with the drafting of the new deer management plan that will be proposed at the November RAC's.

i for one like the change, albeit i wont be able to take advantage of it this year, but surly plan on doing it next!!!

pro, what is the deer committee thinking of doing with the "dedicated" archery deer hunters?

9er

No set/easy answers on the Dedicated hunter program. It has been a huge success, but one draw back is the over-crowding of the Southern and SouthEastern Regions. This has caused heartburn with archers from those regions, many of whom mistake DH for fellow archers, which leads to calls for archers being forced to pick a region. My question is: why punish archers when they are NOT the problem? I am in NO WAY advocating doing away with the DH program, but something needs to change, I believe with a few tweaks it can be rectified w/o too much pain/heartburn to those who enjoy the DH program.

This change to the archery elk season dates has been well received by MOST of the archers I have talked to about it, but as with any change there will be people unhappy with the change(s). I realize that, and we truly tried to minimize the negative effects on archers across the board. I have been called everything from good guy to SOB over this issue. I can't imagine what will happen when I get I-400 pushed through! (???)

what about making those with a "dedicated" tag archery hunt in "their" region, while those with archery only tag do it statewide? guess i might eliminate some of those dedicated hunters, that is the drawback i see. what do you others think???

Pro,

if you get I400 passed, i will call you whatever you want to be called :))

9er

That is the problem, DH already get to pick whatever region they want with no cap on the number of DH for any region. In fact, I think that is the number one reason people sign up for the DH program, so they can hunt the region they want and not have to hope to draw a tag for that region. How to rectify this w/o losing the appeal of the program is not going to be easy.

Thanks for the information, I realize that you can't please everyone all the time and change is going to happen, I guess I'll just have to keep waiting for some change that is actually benificial long term... (for me..)

Yea, they really need to do something about this DH program. Again, I wish decisions could be made based on long term success and not short term dollars...

"Longbow" wrote:Yea, they really need to do something about this DH program. Again, I wish decisions could be made based on long term success and not short term dollars...

This had NOTHING to do with dollars. It was done for the archers who draw a LE elk tag on units that issue spike tags to be able to have the last five days of their hunt w/o competing with spike hunters, youth hunters, and gained 5 days for ALL LE tag holders and any bull archery hunters, as well as give those who hunt both deer and elk the chance to start hunting both at the same time.

I think you'll only have the problem opening weekend. I'm sure it will die off during the week.

I for 1 am very thankful for the change. I took my 13 yr old son out Sat. and he got to stalk 3 deer and my cousin smoked a cow elk at 50 yrds!! =D> Sucess!!! My son got to learn first hand about following a blood-trail(a short one) and skinning and boning out the meat....Whee!!

nice job wapiti67. lets see some pics.

I also like the change. It's nice to the option of elk or deer, Longbow if you want to avoid hunters then don't hunt on opening weekend. My hunting buddy and I waited until Monday to start hunting and I didn't see another hunter on Monday or Tuesday.

Kudos to the DWR for making a positive change; in my view they are doing a great job. There are a lot of people to please.

By the way, I killed my first deer with a bow and pictures are forth coming. I had a shot at 50 yards at 23 cows/calf elk in the same spot I killed my deer about 20 minutes later. Unfortunately we were several miles in on foot and not wanting to make several trips. I'll wait for a chance at a bull. How freaking exciting!!! :thumb

Nice job Bowtech43. Can't wait to see the pics.

"Bowtech43" wrote:Kudos to the DWR for making a positive change; in my view they are doing a great job. There are a lot of people to please.

While I agree that the DWR does a pretty good job, they did NOT make this change, the Utah Bowmen Association pushed this through. I went to three RAC'S and the Wildlife Board meeting to get this through. UBA is working hard to make the bowhunting in Utah a great experience and a great opportunity to pursue big game.

I went to one RAC and it was a tuff sell.. [-o< .Pro, Jerry Slough, and others did a great job with the presentation...didn't leave the RAC members too much wiggle room to shoot it down. I love the change!! =D>

I for one appreciate the extra week. Having drawn a LE elk tag I need all the help I can get. I do believe however that this move was motivated to pacify archery hunters and "throw them a bone" while maintaining the prime peak of the rut for the big money rifle tags. You'll have a hard time convincing me that the $'s brought in by big time rifle hunters chasing 400 class bulls don't influence every decision made by the DWR and their affiliates, I.E. SFW. Can you really tell me that the extra week at the beginning of the season is going to increase my chances much? The bulls are just rubbing the velvet and there is little going on. A much better option in my opinion would be to give us and extra week or 5 days at the end of the hunt. Extend the archery elk season a few extra days. This will increase the number of tags sold. Why do you think so many Utah archery elk hunters go out of state? Give us until the 19th of Sept. and move the subsequent hunts back 1 week. What would the negative ramifications be? I feel it would greatly impact the LE archery hunts, the rifle hunters would still hunt during the rut, the spike elk hunt started 1 week later a few years ago and it was great, and the deer hunt is so short it wouldn’t matter anyway. Just an Idea. How about it PROUTDOORS?

I like the change, there were less in my area as I think there were many more focused on the elk so I presume that many hunters went higher up the mtn.

"Boomer06" wrote:I for one appreciate the extra week. Having drawn a LE elk tag I need all the help I can get.

"Boomer06" wrote:You'll have a hard time convincing me that the $'s brought in by big time rifle hunters chasing 400 class bulls don't influence every decision made by the DWR and their affiliates, I.E. SFW. Can you really tell me that the extra week at the beginning of the season is going to increase my chances much? The bulls are just rubbing the velvet and there is little going on.

I am utterly confused, so you appreciate the change, but it does not do you any good? Seem to contradict yourself there (???)

i agree opening weekend was packed!!!!!! but not due to elk deer change.i hunted a open elk unit for deer and elk and just the other side of the road is a le unit with no spike tags and i hunted deer on that side a little too and it was just as freakin packed!so maybe a handful more hunters that had a le tag where in there but they wiuld have been hunting deer and scouting elk there anyway.so no change to that. i liked this change a few years back my buddy had a le elk tag and the elk we were scouting were pushed off by deer hunters. took us almost 3 weeks to get back into some good bulls. plus i like to hunt the open elk units where i sometimes hunt deer so its a good change! never made since to me to have the elk sstart later than deer unless it was to push the elk into more hiding! anyway thanks pro for pushing this issue great job!
i think the overcrowding feeling comes from people burning up and down the dam* trails on 4 wheelers i am so sick of 4 wheelers they are noisy and annoying and EVERYWHERE! get out and hike people! its so frustrating. i use a 4 wheeler well before light and get into an area hike anywhere from a half mile or more to where i hunt and thats it unless i need it to retrieve an animal. i believe 4 wheelers need some sort of ban during the hunts on smaller trails. main dirt roads or whatever is fine if your hunting near a main road than traffic is a problem anyway but when you are back up in some country and a 4 wheeler finds there way to you its frustrating!

"Boomer06" wrote:I do believe however that this move was motivated to pacify archery hunters and "throw them a bone" while maintaining the prime peak of the rut for the big money rifle tags. You'll have a hard time convincing me that the $'s brought in by big time rifle hunters chasing 400 class bulls don't influence every decision made by the DWR and their affiliates, I.E. SFW.

This was NOT simply "throwing archery hunters a bone"! UBA (the LARGEST archery group in Utah) drafted/proposed this change for the previously mentioned reasons. SFW had NOTHING to do with the drafting/proposing of this change.

"Boomer06" wrote:Can you really tell me that the extra week at the beginning of the season is going to increase my chances much? The bulls are just rubbing the velvet and there is little going on. A much better option in my opinion would be to give us and extra week or 5 days at the end of the hunt. Extend the archery elk season a few extra days. This will increase the number of tags sold. Why do you think so many Utah archery elk hunters go out of state? Give us until the 19th of Sept. and move the subsequent hunts back 1 week. What would the negative ramifications be? I feel it would greatly impact the LE archery hunts, the rifle hunters would still hunt during the rut, the spike elk hunt started 1 week later a few years ago and it was great, and the deer hunt is so short it wouldn’t matter anyway. Just an Idea. How about it PROUTDOORS?

We gave the last five days of archery season to the LE hunters. As for moving the archery season further into September, I AM 100% IN FAVOR of it! But, getting it done will be MUCH easier said than done. There are MORE rifle hunters than archery hunters, they like having an "EASY" hunt, they are more organized than 'us', and money DOES talk and they have more of it.

Ok...I finally figured out how to make the pics small enough to add them here. it was a great hunt and looking forward to this weekend to try and get my son a cow.